In the end
I got 223 years in Nuremberg. Every day, whether with the gangs, whether with
the guards, whether with visitors, whether with smuggling, whether someone
tries to escape and is shot. It doesn't matter if someone
tortures a cat and chokes it to death. There was everything and every day there
was this cinema. Stop it, I want to,
that's it… Is there someone standing there with a booklet like that,
he's only there to leaf through it, and five others are standing
in front of you and masturbating? I can not imagine that. On my first day… In any case,
you will not have sex in a Bavarian prison. They dragged my friend
out of the cell across the floor into the shower
and he just bled to death there. If I had gone up that day,
I would have found him.
Who knows where he could have…
Had, had, bicycle chain. (Spherical Music) Hey friends, and welcome to a
new episode of "The Meeting". My name is Leeroy
and my two guests today have spent much of
their lives locked up in prisons in two
completely different countries. I will
meet Maximilian today. He fled from
the police across Europe as a young adult
and was eventually caught. Among other things, he was sentenced to 13 years in prison for drug
and arms trafficking, robbery and dangerous physical injuries
, of which he spent more than nine years
in a German prison. And I will meet Maksim. He was arrested by police during a
failed drug deal
and sentenced to 13 years in prison, of which he served just over eight years
in a Thai prison. In the country's toughest jail, he ate and slept among murderers
and rapists. In any case, I'm
really excited. And if you haven't activated
this YouTube channel out there yet,
do so now, activate the channel, subscribe to the
bell, it's all free and if you
want to be part of it yourself, just write me and
I would say let's start now! Hello, greetings to you.
Understood? Yes very good. Thanks. Yes Perfect. You've both spent a lot of time
in prison. That's what today is going to be about. I can
already anticipate so much. But my question
to you now, Maxim, what do you think the man did to
get him jailed? What has he done? I would perhaps
classify him as very impulsive, that he might have had a brief freak out somewhere
or had a runaway like that. Sometimes there is one, one, one
does something that one regrets afterwards. Maybe violent. I don't know it.
I don't really think he was really in the drug scene. But you can also be wrong there,
I can't say. Okay, you're so prone to
spontaneous freak out. Now the other way around. There's someone sitting here, I can tell you, who also
spent some time in prison. What did he do? So if you don't know, you
really have to go down to two things: either drugs or cheating.
Because the percentage of inmates
on drugs is the highest. That's why I have
the greatest chance of scoring. But the man also looks
like he can handle money. So it could also have
had something to do with finances. But I'm staying for now…
I'm guessing drugs because the chance
is the best that I'll score. Okay, you get to dissolve first. Maxim, what exactly
got you in jail? Yes, he typed well. This was a drug case. Exactly a setup
you would say in German. Directed an operation
against a friend. And I slipped in with it,
right. The whole thing in…
– In Thailand. (croaking:) Ah! This is bad. Nice that you're here. The odds
aren't even that good. That's actually true. Given the number of years
I've been there, I'd say the chances are very slim.
Very, very low. In Thailand,
life imprisonment is pretty quick, isn't it? mmm Exactly. You had 13 years as a sentence.
– Sentenced to 13 years. And a little over eight served
pardoned by the king.
No! Fist.
– Get out … I also had 13 years. Were you also pardoned by the king? No, that's all the same… I'll jump right
into my thought carousel. Because, okay, we all, we'll have to talk about that now,
that Thai prison is much more terrible than German
prison or European prison, that you
can't compare the conditions, you can hardly compare them. One of the things I would
have if I were in Thailand would be the hope of a
pardon from the king, you don't have that in Germany,
nobody will pardon you here. No matter what your punishment,
there will be no amnesty. So we
got into the topic very quickly here. I've already heard from you that
drugs were an issue and you
slipped into it unfavorably.
But you haven't dissolved yet. I've only heard it here so far. You're the one who impulsively,
impulsively knocked down and therefore had to go to jail. Nah, I'm not
the impulsive type at all. For me it was…
I didn't stumble in either. It was deliberate drug trafficking,
arms trafficking. Rape blackmail in the
drug environment, stories like that. In the end I got 223 years
in Nuremberg, so individual hits for individual cases. Here's a kilo of coke,
here's a kilo of meth, here's an act of violence. Well, it was a
hodgepodge of different crimes and then there is
the concentration of sentences from all of that. Then they came to 13 years,
one month. may i ask where you been I was in two,
I was in Phuket prison where I was arrested.
– The worst one. No, the worst one was
the second. That was in Bangkok. This was a drug
and junkie prison. for junkies and drug dealers Only for drug cases,
where human rights, the right to wash, to
sleep, to eat, medical care
are not given as one would normally know them
, also from other prisons.
And that wasn't the case there. The prison you were talking about
in Bangkok, for example, I read recently,
was built for 1,500 prisoners and there are 6,800 in there. Two to one is terrible, 6,000 people instead of 1,500.
– That's crazy. Inconceivably.
– Was that the case with you? This is unimaginable. Well, our cell in Bangkok
is built for 30 people and 72 were…
– Stop it, I'd like to… That means toilets for 30,
that means sleeping places for 30, and they're tight, they're for ten if you
looked at it humanely. That a prison
has three times the overload of people
is completely normal there. Therefore, it is very difficult for everyone to have enough clean
water to wash, everyone to have enough space to sleep. We had prisons
where you slept in shifts because there just wasn't enough space. In my last prison,
in the detention center pending deportation, I leaned against a wall for the first two days
because there were 120 people in a room
measuring 60 square meters ,
and you leaned against it.
Or an old Singaporean man then pulled his legs
together and I
leaned against the wall like that for two days. You can't respect these rights
because there are too many people. And in Europe it's
different. And there are
n't that many prisoners, so not
everyone is put in jail right away. One difference that I can
still see from the outside, of course, is this climate,
these 40 degrees, these 50 degrees, this … Do
you say tropical or what? So these weather conditions,
together with the diseases that result from them, the
poor medical care, that paints
a completely different picture. It's just different. So also
what we do here, for example if we now isolate someone
or something, it works differently. The cell might
not be clean or anything, but you're
not fighting bugs.
You know,
when someone has scabies… They come to the side,
you have to… You don't
just let everyone get scabies. Yes, totally awesome, that's just … Despite this
place where I was, which some people saw as hell, I
found paradise within me. I've had cats like this for years. There were cats in our prison. I once had six cats
that I fed. I myself sometimes sacrificed my food
for my cats because there was nothing for them. And there were birds. We had birds in our cell. It was normal for a bird or two to come in.
– Does this exist here too? pets? I'm at such a weird point right now
, man, because I'm wondering, I've said this before,
of course it's…
I'm wondering
where I could have done better. Because people like me
in this system here in Germany ca n't buy me my freedom,
I would have had the money when I was arrested,
I would have had the money. So if it had gone for 70,000 euros
, I would have had them. Who
can actually deal with violence. All these things are of
no use to you here in Germany, because they lock you up in an
empty room like that. You don't get a bird,
you don't get to see a cat, you get nothing, nothing,
nothing, nothing. And that's how it was,
you don't get a phone either. There was simply nothing in Straubing.
And those who
got along extremely well there are a certain type of perpetrators
who, I do n't think, would have gotten five meters in Thailand, namely sex offenders,
who then go there because they don't break any rules,
because their victims don't do it there gives. They'll get
along really well in jail. and people like me, I'm
a bad prisoner there and I'm constantly having problems
with this system. Then just the thought of it,
I would never presume to say
it would have been better for me. So no, but this… being
able to have a cat like that, what that would have done to me! The thing is, you've got the cat, but what you're
going through because of that cat and what people… There are always very
psychopathic characters in prison.
What you go through because of a cat like that
and that you sometimes risk your life
because of a cat. I've also often asked myself: Would it be better to have ended up in a German
prison? Did I have to
go through this hard time? I think this question
is unanswerable. What kind of people did you
deal with in prison? The prison was also
with other foreigners. That means we were in Phuket,
a holiday island, 50 white people. We were
labeled as white, we were from all over Europe,
from all over the world. In a corner by the sewers,
by the toilets was the realm of foreigners,
by the bell.
Of course I
went straight to him, I did
n't know any Thai at all. There was everything
in that first prison. It wasn't specifically
a drug prison. There was an American
who was a Navy Seal soldier and he was lying next to me for a very, very long time. He had taken a girl home with him in the evening
, packed it in pieces
in a bag and
then threw the bag away somewhere, but
his phone number was inside the bag. A small piece of paper with numbers. His case can still be
observed well on the internet and it was really
very psychologically burdened. He didn't have a normal day,
I'd say. He has always
had very rapid fluctuations. I was sitting next to another Norwegian
who killed his wife and
walled him in a toilet. So everything was really there. We've had dollar counterfeiters
in the millions, we've had all sorts of things. Drugs too, of course. It was a motley bunch.
Did you have hierarchies? So there is something like that,
because you know it from the films, especially the new ones,
so they are newcomers and somehow have to
clean the floor first or something or hand in all their presents. Like you used to have to pass the lunch to school
, all clichés in my head? I would be interested to know if this
is the case in reality? You know, it depends,
well, if you look at prisons in the US,
they are completely structured. There is a hierarchy, there are gangs in every prison,
especially in the state prisons, also in the counties,
so there is the hierarchy. There you come,
you are categorized partly based on your character,
partly on your crime, partly on the amount of the penalty. Germany and the Netherlands
are very similar. There are hierarchies
that also arise later based on the reason, deed, personality,
level of punishment, but they are not so fixed or
they don't say so much now. Okay, did you have a hierarchy? Because you say you had your
own empire, you foreigners.
It was easy precisely
because there were so many of us in the first prison
. The alumni helped you to
tell you where to be careful. As a foreigner you are
always classified as the last class. That's before you go to… It took me months to get clean water
from the basin to wash myself. My first day was just brown
gravy and soapy water. But it's the same with eating. No matter where, it didn't take a long time until it was my
turn. But there were
just these prejudices in Phuket now, we were a lot of foreigners. In Bangkok I was the only white person,
so the only foreigner. But my advantage was that I had been in jail for a year and a half
and already had a bit of experience
and I got in
and the gangs went to jail, we had three big gangs… Later I also belonged to one. There are always crazy people there.
Well, there are always some
who are very special, who do things
that no normal person would do. Blackmail, violence, every gang has that
, every gang has these people. Did you survive in a gang like that
in prison? As I said, it is with us.
Why do gangs form? There are always gangs where the state is weak,
the weaker the legal protection by the state, the faster
an effective gang forms. And then over time
these structures grow. And in Thailand there are fixed
structures, where they are known … So it is known
that it exists. If you were to start now, well, we founded a small
group, then they'd hit it right away.
Well, they take you
into isolation for a year. Then it was like that again. Then it calms down, because
it has to grow over generations. They don't really allow that. What is there here, then there are those
that already existed outside, i.e. structures that existed outside. If many from certain
structures are then arrested, then there are
Yugoslav structures, i.e. ex-Yugoslav structures. There are
Russian-language structures that are then continued
in prison. And the boundaries are, I wouldn't even say ethnicity,
but rather language. So you really do have
language groups that form. But there isn't
a cross-prison gang in Germany now,
it just doesn't exist. Okay, so if there's no one
so automatic that you go to jail and
then go straight to that group and know you're going to get protection. But then I would be interested,
how do you get here? Do you earn respect
from others? Because in the end
it's not about
being out and about with a group, you want to go out there with your skin intact
, so you need respect.
How do you get respect Is that
your current appearance? Who are you. Okay, I'm a young man serving a 13-year
sentence. This makes it clear that
I didn't make a statement because who am I supposed to have betrayed? Then I went the wrong way
with the 13 years, so that's enough or do you have to hit
someone else inside ?
– That helps. That's the thought, it 's not even
true in the gang jails, because that's what the gangs are there for, you don't get in there and then you
kick someone's ass. Because then correct me,
but then they'll kill you, right? So if someone comes in and attacks the strongest,
then it's done. Yes it is, we white foreigners
in Thailand are very impulsive. We
always have to discuss everything. We always have an opinion. And the Thais are a very quiet
people and very… there is
a law of loss of face. In Thailand you can
lose face with a silly remark. And that face won't be
given back to you anytime soon. So loss of face means: Your respect for others
is zero.
And of course, as I said before, there
's always that crazy guy who comes along and
just wants to test you. They like your pants or have
no idea what you've got with you. And he says you'll bring it to me
tomorrow, I'd like that. And then it depends, it's kind of that moment
where it's really important if you go
and pee in your pants, then you can rest assured
that it won't be the last you hear about it. But if you start arguing, that's not good either,
because the others see you as a white nut
who wants to talk things over here. So there is the best solution
is always not to say anything, but also not to give it away, but just react
when he touches you.
So he can tell you
what he wants. Just smile back good. And wait,
if he takes a step, and if he takes a step, then actually
you should react. Then defend yourself. Exactly. Do you think there are
friendships in prisons? Yes, yes, definitely. So in prison you
really get to know someone because you see
the ups and downs, how they handle them,
how they make them. Because you sleep next to someone
and you know them better than your wife
or your neighbors because they are there. I don't have a bed
or a mattress, we sleep shoulder
to shoulder on the floor or in the spoon position
with people. And you get to know his weaknesses
and his strengths. And then of course there are people
who suit you very well and we help each other. They have a suitable word,
they can feel you when you are doing well
or when you are feeling bad. And absolutely,
today I still have one or two candidates who, let me say,
have stayed in my heart like brothers.
I'm swaying a bit. On the one hand,
I've always been like this… Maybe to explain, I work in the
juvenile crime prevention area today and there's one of the things that
people go into crime with this:
yeah, me and my brothers, we're a gang now
and we die together And then come the negotiations, they
betray each other. I know very few people
in the criminal field who were friends when they were kids
and then later… That's the way it is, there's a lot of
reasons it falls apart. But what you just said about detention
is also true, of course, because that's where
you naturally … you experience someone there
all the time.
How does he react
when having a bad day? How does he react
when something goes wrong? How does he react
when things go well? How does he react when his situation gets better
but yours gets worse? That's something. You go into isolation,
but he gets a sports card. So he's allowed to do sports
and then you'll be isolated. Is that still thinking of you? One of the people I
was with every day for seven and a half years in prison is now staying with me
after his release. So that's my brother
and I found that interesting too. I don't even know
if friend is the right word, because I don't know
if I've found friends. I've found some brothers and they're not necessarily…
but it was. With friendship you
always have the feeling that if something happened,
it could split up.
But people
never part again. It's so grown together,
it's family. Interesting that you both
use the same word for it and probably
have similar feelings. I always think of friend first. I wouldn't, I don't know, out of
my nature I would
n't always call my girlfriend… I have my brother,
so I won't… But for you it's
really grown together, almost like a family, because you
have seen people in situations where most people
are not like that. One was fired, I am
now his son's godfather.
So we're
really family now. Things like that do
n't go apart like that. So that's what survives. Are those the people
who, when push comes to shove… You just said you have to
fight back at some point, you had to do that too.
in prison. Are these the people
who then punch you out? Or to put it another way:
How did you defend yourself? It's like that in German prison
if you don't want to, it's
a bit different in juvenile detention, but in adult detention you can actually
slip through without violence. Well, if you don't do it on purpose… That's why you have to say very clearly, all my experiences of violence
in prison had to do with how I behaved in prison,
namely I wanted, I wanted to be a gangster,
I wanted to continue being a criminal. In this respect, I had to get involved and
also drew the violence on me. Most people in German
prisons do not experience violence. I remember
when I came to Bangkok, I was hired by these…these
three gangs.
I was pretty fit at the time
, building muscle mass,
and very popular because there was no white guy. I was also able to get along with maybe three or four
if it came to that. And that's how
they tried to recruit me and I
always did my own thing strictly at the beginning. I've had my fitness,
I've built my library and that's been my life
and I don't have anyone… I didn't want to
slip into any gangs. A friend of mine
who trained with me got promoted
to boss of the biggest gang. There were these three big gangs,
Bang Sue, Ding Daeng, and Yan Nawa. These are large districts of Bangkok
and they also rule in Bangkok and also in prison. And Bang Sue is
the biggest gang in my prison. The boy who trained with me
has now become the new boss because the old man was fired. Then one day,
his name was Don, he hugged me and said, "You're Bang Sue now." Then I said, "I'm not a gang member,
I don't belong to anyone." "You're Bang Sue,
I'm Bang Sue, I'm the boss." "These 300 people
are all behind you." At some point I was Bang Sue,
ate with them and it became known
that I was one of them.
But like I said,
I've never punched people in the face in gang fights. I've been known to put people down on
both gangs. And that's why they
left me alone from the start, because people kept
saying: Hey, yes, but he
put me on the floor and said
I should stay lying down. You can almost imagine it like an Asterix and Obelix movie
.
I walk around, smack that guy on the ground
and say, "Stay there!" To another too. and stay there and be so They were all a tad smaller
than you. But you're also huge,
bam-bam-bam, low kicks distributed. Exactly, they were very small
and that was also a drug prison. They were all junkie, that is,
part skin and bones. Are there also people dying at the moment
because people didn't intervene quickly enough
or because people meet there
who basically have more of the potential to
kill someone than
is perhaps the case out there on the street. Well, it's very, very rare that someone is killed in German prisons
, especially now,
not just in the… Yes, I don't know,
could there be a fight or something? But the one where people actually say
okay, let's kill that person specifically, it's very rare,
but it happens. Well I remember exactly what
it was like, it's also one of those days
that I won't forget. So I heard what happened,
but I couldn't classify it.
How does that happen in a prison? Screwdriver
– With the screwdriver. Multiple screwdrivers, multiple
people, multiple screwdrivers. Then what do you hear? Screams, strange screams. So, it was… You… Movie screams are so "Ahhhhh",
death screams are different. You can't imitate them very well. And then the thought was
somehow, okay, I went inside the
house. Because I heard it from the farm. On the way there, I was distracted
by someone else, like that in conversation, because
I didn't want to look in which cell right now, but I was like:
What's going on there? I was in a good mood, funny.
– Anyone could have said. I didn't know what it was at all. Two people I knew
walked past me.
So with the parkas, there are
green parkas in the institutions, and one had the parker on, the other
protected it a bit. Then I found out later
that it was also a person who was badly injured, you
also saw blood on the floor, but it did
n't realize it at the moment. While I
was standing there fooling around, they dragged my friend
out of the cell across the floor into the shower
and he bled to death there.
So it worked then there's still
one is still alive. He
came to the hospital alive, but was no longer
able to regain consciousness. It was just five minutes. It's also one of those things
that made me think to myself: if I had gone up there that day,
I would have found him. If I had, I would have found
who knows where. Had, had, bike chain. But then you go round
in circles for days and weeks. You're just going around in circles. I was
in his cell with him for a year. I still commune today. What was it like for you, when someone then
wanted to kill someone else, did they do it too? Well, I actually only
saw someone get stabbed twice. Most of the cases I know of
are disease related. We were more in a place
that was difficult to survive because of our condition, because of the
circumstances, not necessarily because of violence, but because of
how we were allowed to live there.
Oddly enough, as I said,
heart attacks and strokes were the order of the day. But there, too, it was
a drug prison for junkies, who arrived there in a
very bad condition, many young people
died of heart attacks.
Of course you don't have that in the normal world. So we also had a time
when it was unbelievably large. As I said, one had
a heart attack in the cell. But the guards are watching football and don't want to
stop the football game because of us. And he dies. We tried to
piggyback him and then he flies on his head,
another fall and he dies here. And everyone laughs their heads off because he
flew on his head. Oh, there were very crazy moments that we Westerners just
don't really understand. These are really pictures that are super difficult to understand,
I'll be honest. Exactly, because death
also has something to do with suffering for us. We suffer from…
Or we have sympathized. You have something like that for
half an hour down there… You can mourn there for an hour. But then you stop mourning. It's not that you
mourn a dead person forever, that's a completely different culture.
Now we've talked a lot about
violence, even going as far as murder. And it's shocking,
but still very exciting to also hear that you
've experienced it so closely. What about privacy
in prison? Let me start,
because theirs is a lot worse. First thing in prison
is stripping naked. So, that's the principle, that's how it
starts. Actually in every prison. When you get there, you'll first do
this… You undress. What is privacy? A private room. Even if you
have a solitary cell in Germany, do you never have a lock on the inside
? So you can't lock your cell door
from the inside. And that's something
that would give you privacy. And of course that leads to being disturbed in all sorts of situations over the years
. ' Cause this door flies open for
cell controls or whatever. In the best case, you sit on the toilet. Then the officer gets
something out of it too. In the worst case, you're dealing
intensively with yourself and then it's natural, that takes away
some of your privacy. Yes, I also
spent a year in a six-man cell where you are never alone.
I know that,
the cell is never empty. But it does
n't compare to what this man experienced
in terms of privacy. Would you say that too? Yes, well, in the eight years I have actually
never had a moment alone and also not a quiet moment
where, except when I … When I got used to
opening my eyes at four o'clock and doing my meditation,
breathing technique, Prayers … I had a routine
that I did every day and there was an hour or two when the cell was really quiet
. But whether that was
in the cell or in the small courtyard with 850 people,
it was always very loud. For me there was only the prison
to show me that for me. I don't think I should have
experienced it so extreme out here: How do I react
to certain situations when there is no drinking water for two days
because the water pump is broken? And we're in April or
May, the hottest month, and there's none
and the wardens say, "No, we have to wait for money
to buy this pump first." Then you get to know yourself.
How quickly will I lose
my patience? Or you are threatened or
your best friend is threatened. How do I react to that? That was a cinema. For me prison was a daily
scene of unexpected things. You didn't know
what to expect tomorrow. No day was like the other. as might be predicted in a
German prison. Well, you probably had
a routine. That was the morning routine,
that was midday and that was evening. It was with us too,
except that something happened every day. We were there with 850 people
and every day, whether with the gangs, whether with the guards,
whether with the visit, whether with the smuggling,
whether someone tries to escape and gets shot,
it doesn't matter whether someone tortures a cat
and they chokes to death, there was everything and every day there
was this cinema.
It was full of it. And you could now
be one of them, who
let himself be taken along and destroyed everywhere
from all sides. Or you've started
to discover something in yourself where you say:
Hey, I don't think
I expected to be able to do something like this.
Pushing your limits again and again and discovering your new skills
. I also find it very exciting, like the differences,
because I wouldn't call any of what you describe
as real privacy. But I
forgot something very important besides going to the toilet, because we humans
also have a sex drive and I imagine it would be very difficult to fulfill that
both if someone bursts in and if there are people
around anyway.
What's more,
you were in men's prisons. Were there any women who were
somehow allowed to drop by? So there are in Germany,
in other federal states there are single visits,
married visits there. you usually have to
be married, which would be less of a problem. In Bavaria
it is still illegal today. In Bavaria you are
never alone with visitors. So no family visits either. They say the family can
stay there for an evening or something, that doesn't exist. In addition, in Straubing. Due to the sex offenders
being housed there, there is a ban on pornography. That means
there are no booklets or anything like that, you can
imagine what's there.
All prisoners know what's available, it's DSF sports clips at night,
people watch them, they stay
up until twelve or one.
In any case, you will not
have sex in a Bavarian prison. With you there is somehow
the possibility of pornography, maybe a woman
who comes by or something? Have you experienced anything like this? We could have anything in prison,
as long as you had money you could buy anything. But you could
n't buy a woman. Our women were the
transvestites, there were enough of them. It was culturally impossible for us
white foreigners. Because, first of all, we don't have this
quick homosexual predisposition … I also think you either have it
or you don't. And in Thailand it can also be
that outside you don't have it and in prison you have,
It's quite normal. We had porn magazines. That was a big thing
on the black market.
If someone stands there with a booklet like that,
he's only there to leaf through it, and five others stand in front of you
and masturbate. And it's only there to browse. One says: "Wait!
Go back again, go back!" And one of them just stands there and… We, as white foreigners,
looked at it from the outside and always thought… What were you thinking?
That's exactly what interests me now. We just thought that's
unworthy, I could never do it. I could
n't stand there and join in with them. It just wasn't in our nature. We
saw it as more of a strange thing. It's so awesome. Sorry, but I don't know,
I can't imagine it. Really, on my first day,
Leeroy, I have to add that. My first day in the cell. I arrive in Bangkok and one, a Nigerian we named Snoop
because he looked like Snoop Doggy Dogg.
Snoop then took me to the cell
and I arrived just today and was shown my sleeping place
next to Snoop and I sit there. Leaning against the wall
and on the other side of the wall are two Thai people looking at me. And suddenly one Thai pulls
out the other's penis and starts playing with it
and they both look at me. I sit there,
look at the Snoop, say, "Snoop. What? What's up?" He looks: "Oh, oh, everything's
fine, it's not an issue, it's not a problem." I'm like, "Like no problem?" I haven't seen that in Phuket
that he's turning me on now? In Phuket I have to say
there are a lot of Muslims. It's a muslim part. In the south of Thailand there
are an unbelievable number of Muslims who would not have allowed that either. Okay, that was the limit. But in Bangkok it was completely free. Finally, I would like to
hear from you. What would you like to
say to people out there? Is there anything where you say:
Seriously, I got through it
and that's one thing you can learn from me.
I've also noticed,
over the past few years, that people are looking at
what I've experienced. And what you experienced
will also be like that, they will also see it that way and say:
Okay, I'm not in jail, but I have a different,
difficult situation. I have an illness,
I'm in the middle of a divorce, I've got something. Something traumatic is happening to me right now
. Something terrible happens. But look, there are two guys sitting there, they're
beaming today. They're in a good mood. They survived,
so maybe I can too. And I firmly believe in that. No matter where we are right now,
there is an after.
Yes, it's a
matter of faith. I've come to
believe that everything is there to
make us thrive. Of course, getting there, being
able to really believe that, can also take a path that doesn't feel comfortable. And as was also said
in a great sentence: If you want to see the light, you also have to have
seen the dark. And that's why I would ask you
, don't just give up when something… lost your job, your
partner left or you got sick, because
maybe that's exactly your path, that you'll
come out of it even stronger afterwards. You speak to my soul. Well, I do
n't have anything to say about prison myself, but I have to be honest,
my life story with illness, I see
a lot of parallels even with the three of us. It's not always just
loose, easy straight ahead. and what we make of
it is fortunately often in our hands, depending on
the perspective we take.
Today I got to know
two very different and also similar perspectives
. Thank you both so much for
coming here. By the way, both of them are meanwhile
super successful speakers, authors, on the internet, so it's
worth stopping by. And if you don't feel like it
and don't want to stay on YouTube, then I've shown two more
fancy videos for you here somewhere. You can also choose one of these. We can now
just wave goodbye again. Until next time. Fist.
– Well done, well done. Well done. (Easy music) It was nice.
– Thanks alot!.
