Jocko Podcast 137 w/ Dean Lister: If You Know The Way Broadly, You Will See It In All Things

this is jaco podcast number 137 with
echo Charles and me Jocko willing good evening echo good evening if you
know the way broadly you will see it in all things and that is a simplified
quote from Musashi's book of five rings and it's a solid quote makes sense I
believe it to be true but at the same time while I agree with Musashi that if
you know the way broadly you'll see it in all things there's a little bit of a
problem with that concept and the problem is how do you get to know the
way broadly I mean the way is no easy thing to grasp do you aren't born with
it you don't just wake up with it it's something that you have to learn and
it's something that you are always still learning but even though you have to
learn the way at the same time learning the way is hard because the way is
something that's hard to teach and recently I've been asked in a cup by a
couple different people in a couple of different scenarios how I learned what I
learned how have I learned what I learned and this is believe me no claim
that I know what ton of stuff I don't as I just said I am still learning but I
will say that I do know the way broadly enough that I now see it everywhere and
in everything so how did I learn the way well it's kind of interesting because
it's a combination of actually it's more of a collision of a bunch of different
things of course my time the SEAL Teams and I do trace a lot of it back to the
seal platoon where we had a little mutiny we hired a bat boss and we ended
up turning against him and he got fired and replaced by the best boss and and
the just a position and the contrast between really good leadership and
really bad leadership made it very clear but it wasn't just that of course I had
other great guys that I worked with in the SEAL Teams that taught me a ton a
great instructor cadre that put me through training that taught me a ton
and you know I realized I always paid close attention to leadership and
tactics and I think that's probably because I saw something that I might be
able to get good at since there was a lot of things that I wasn't naturally
good I wasn't naturally the strongest I wasn't naturally the fastest I wasn't
naturally the best shot so I kind of paid attention to leadership and I paid
attention to who did it well and who didn't and I paid attention to tactics
and I paid attention to what worked and what didn't from a tactical perspective
and I read now I'll tell you right now I did not read a lot by any stretch
especially compared to how much I read right now but I read some important
books that had a big impact on me and of course there were only books about war
and in those books about war the things that I actually paid attention to wasn't
like the it wasn't the the the political situation that was going on I paid
attention to the leadership I paid attention to the tactics I paid
attention to the human nature of how men reacted to war and so some of those
books and again it wasn't a lot about faced with the old breed battle
leadership the last hundred yards some very straightforward
and books that I covered early on this podcast and then of course on top of
that I got lucky with my deployments overseas and I got to experience war
from a leadership perspective and I started to see how things overlapped and
intertwined and one of the things that really helped me see the connections
between leadership and tactics and human nature and life in general was jujitsu I
talked about jujitsu a lot obviously we talked about jujitsu a lot jujitsu is a
simple straight forward practical representation of the way if you think
about what itwhat jujitsu hasn't it right it has offense it has defense it
has flanking it has conservation of energy it has deception it has attack it
has concentration of effort it has position improving your position it has
maneuvering it has placing baits and using feints and always keeping your
base and keeping your balance while at the same time trying to upset your
opponent's now everything I just said you could use that for combat for
tactical situations you could also use it in business you could use it in
interactions with other human beings as you maneuver through human nature and
how it you interact with it and there's psychological elements inside of
jiu-jitsu as well that are reflected humility you're gonna get humbled by
jiu-jitsu and at the same time dichotomy you're gonna gain confidence you're
gonna know the truth you're gonna know where you actually stand you know it's
not you're gonna get a belt but that belt it only represents it only it
doesn't fully represent the reality of the situation in reality of the
situation is the truth and in jiu-jitsu you know that
truth you can be vulnerable you're gonna psychologically you're
gonna learn about tenacity you're gonna you're gonna have to have grit you're
gonna have to have durability you're gonna have to have stability and as I
trained jiu-jitsu and I garnered a better understanding of jiu-jitsu I
started to have a better understanding of the way and as I learned the way on
the mats the way revealed itself in combat it revealed itself in leadership
in human nature and in life because as you I and I talked about this as well as
you understand things from different angles right so when you learn the way
in different disciplines you start to see it from different angles and
eventually I came to understand the way broadly and now I do see it in
everything and this is another thing the more I see in everything the more I see
it in everything so understanding the way like I said a lot of it had to do
with this threat and I talked about it when we when least talked about judo I
talked about how jujitsu is the thing that started I started to see a
connective thread between these between these different disciplines and a lot of
it my understanding of jujitsu helped me in every other aspect and a lot of my in
fact the vast majority of my understanding of jujitsu comes from one
person and the person I was lucky enough to learn from there's a pioneer of the
sport considered by many people to be one of the greatest grapplers ever
approached he's a practitioner that actually revolutionized the sport of
jujitsu and grappling and his influence is still evident today
world champion multiple times over also a mixed martial arts fighter who has
faced some of the best in the world and some of the biggest arenas in that sport
and someone who I've trained on the mats of justice with for over 20 years and
who's been a close friend of mine that whole time through many ups and downs
through victories and defeats through struggles of life on and off the mat
master of jujitsu and more important a friend of mine my brother Dean Lister
who is now finally coming on the show Dean welcome to the show
Jacques our great to be a brother thank you for the invite yeah man let's start
at the beginning and I was thinking about I know a little bit about your
beginning and but I actually didn't realize that I know that you were raised
somewhat in Panama but where were you actually born born in Camp Pendleton
Oceanside here in San Diego as your dad was in the Marines right that's right so
I'm Anita was San Diego but two years ago up in Venezuela two years in Panama
and my whole life have been all around the world traveling learning in the
world was a very important to study how long were you how old were you when you
moved to Venezuela I was in third grade so eight I need to go right into
spanish-speaking yes cool well they had English and Spanish okay I didn't speak
Spanish that was actually a problem for me and I actually learned Spanish
fluently when I lived in Panama was a junior high and that was a course did
you go to a Spanish school spanish-speaking school or did you just
learn it out in the streets I learned best from let's say free
rolling saying something you do it wrong you
actually learn how to speak better so I've actually been dropped off in
countries and learn languages that way it's the best way actually so you have
no choice immersion immersion exactly in Panama
it was DoD the part of different school and matter of fact they used my junior
High's as a hospital field hospital turn the Panama
and that that's where I actually learned Spanish it's survival Spanish when I was
a little kid but Panama what years did you live in Panama 89 88 so I was the
seventh and eighth grade around the time seventh and eighth grade you lived in
Panama the invasion went down in 89 with this I think December December 18th or
20th for you yeah and you were like in it it was happening around you what
happened was for damid or which actually means for lover
it's a Navy base it's not a very big base but it's the only base in Panama
that was there trying to make a joint effort to have a halfpenny mean well
imagine I was in the middle of about maybe 80 yards from where my house was
down a hill about 40 guys got massacred there and the front gates at the base
some PDF that pediment Defense Forces police military same thing down there
they they did try to run a marine roadblock who in a bus that's not gonna
work out good for them and uh the Marine said 50 Cal just and the bus grind it to
a halt basically and didn't make it so yeah that's right what did they do
with the families during that time well sir like what did your I mean your dad I
have to work or he I he was he was at quarry heights which was the main you
know headquarters so he was basically underground this big rock and he could
not tell us so he knew but there's no way it was like top secret whatever
compartmentalize whatever you would say as far as he couldn't notice no and they
didn't he didn't didn't send you out of the country it happened real fast yeah
because they they killed a marine lieutenant I believe for there was
looting a pause and that was maybe yeah that was not the reason that was
distraught but not the straw the boulder that broke the camel's back for sure and
sent in all our forces that caused me some problems though in school because
most the kids were Panamanian kids they were they called him zonies
their parents worked on the Panama Canal and so they were pretty well off I
wanted he's at school down there and because of that everyone everyone from
Panama had an uncle or a cousin who died and so they see me I was by the way I
was a goofy kid not saying I wasn't tough I was just
goofy so didn't speak Spanish I was goofy my social skills were a
little bit awkward maybe they are to this day actually and that's a recipe
for disaster right so that's like scrawny I was always I was always tough
scrawny but I wasn't I didn't get big and tall I was like 16 17 started
growing real fast yeah and so you were getting scraps down there basic rots
because you were a gringo you call this Yankee down there granule didn't exist
that's okay junkie everywhere is non-key go home it was
everywhere Yankee Indus felt wrong hom and Yankee was Y a in qu i swell
expenditure so the school was on base no no you take a bus matter of fact it was
really stupid they actually had a failed coup but I
think two weeks before the invasion one of Noriega Manuel Noriega's top guys
generals successfully took him down and the loyalists who to noreagaaa came to
his rescue and the general surrendered but that day the country was on high
alert and we're going home on the bus back to get dropped off it but to my
base and other bases and the penny meaning PDF Panamanian Defense Force
guys when a machine gun nest just and I'm telling all these high school kids I
knew enough just shut up they opened the one that would started
pawning these guys and these guys had what are the PKM what was some it was a
Connie right eyes and they were looking at us on and they didn't shoot us but
that was all those things we needed kit when you're young you do stupid things
apparently so yeah so I was right there it was um that's crazy time it was good
though I'm actually glad and this is all I was teased out cool which is I don't
think he appreciates it but I was like a jock who I saw war before you was like
yeah whatever so I've seen 1/10 of 1% or whatever but
do you have at 10 years old I was the 1331
okay that's actually you actually had more of an understanding if you were a
little bit younger yeah you might not really get it yeah we got enough
understanding to realize you and I ain't yer and stuff yes so for 24 hours we
were all alone pitch dark basically I was just on the ground for three days
and my mom filled up the bathtub with water and I thought I was gonna die
really and you know you're 12 years old you think a lot but that changed my life
I should just that just to have that experience actually on base that was
secured by it wasn't US forces it was becoming secured it was the only base in
Panama that was half Panamanian across the street down a hill was the
Panamanian officers so it was a joint effort in my situate the u.s.

Kids or
like for Howard there were an Rodman there were over this hills and they
heard gunshots and you know concussions whatever but they didn't see anything
might I see a few tracers but yeah I was right in the middle damn round hit your
house like like we on top of the hill so a few things chip the top of our roof
and and for sure if you walk by Windows someone could show you so we didn't do
that of course and we just drink out our bathtub Jr you and your my sister sister
my mom and that was at work but I was he was working he freaked out our neighbor
we had giant yards between these houses and ice houses actually and the neighbor
she was all by herself so it was just no kids she ran over across this I say a
hundred yards the arts were really wide and she's knocking our doors she came in
so I say we had a fourth it was young lady to me it was an old 84 25 yeah to
me that was an oldest person you ever seen in your life she can usually I'd
leave any weapons at the house I've been like that for a reason I would have
dropped up and not really but yeah my dad was yeah it was just a sudden thing
was a short notice and he was yeah what happened at around 11:00 before midnight
in the 11:35 or something I thought it was firecrackers first and and then just
shaking in flashes every words just chaotic
okay on and then did you finish out that school year so that goes down in
December it was Scott Blake held pretty quickly yeah let's see three days of
two days of very intense first day was the most second was serious third was
okay and the next week was just I got mop up operations so still for ten
days it was dangerous but the first one of my teachers from my junior high got
got killed and was just out in the street a long time and he was living in
town actually that's why he was in the wrong place wrong time and I don't know
how I got shot but I'm not gonna not sure by who but wrong place wrong time
so yeah right in the middle of it yeah we just go down to Panama to do jungle
training it was awesome but it was after I mean this is in the 90s so but I we
went in and we'd look around trying to find you know where some of these
battles took place and and it was interesting so then when you you see did
you finish out that school year halfway through we moved to a San Diego ok high
school down here and then you went now you were down there did you start did
you start getting interested in martial arts when you were getting picked on I
was doing karate karate now I did wrestling for one year when I was eight
years old my dad made me do it mm-hmm and I didn't like it at the time
but I'm really glad he made me do it is that helped me a lot in fights
it's a weird it's a weird thing with kids like you know that it's good that
he made you do it but if he might if he made you do it even more I mean maybe
you just hate high school I wanted to Brussels so that's good so then you got
to San Diego and now and you also played football yes were you better at football
or are you better at wrestling wrestling I was a good tackler I was one the top
one or two best tacklers not the fastest guy average yeah really my body's not
made for sprinting it's made for grabbing people did you start did you
you you are a mutant did you start did you see was that so you what grade
was it that you wrestled in for one year was that like sixth grade or something
so 13 years old maybe so now your freshman year in high school is the
first year that you actually started wrestling freshman I skipped 10th grade
because I wanted to focus on weights and football mistake but it's okay
and then eleventh and twelfth grade at wrestled and I was varsity 11 or 12 now
as we did that well with out that much experience
I don't know why but for me well I do know why cuz you're you know you just
joked about being like you know a mutant grappler but you actually literally have
like you were designed to grapple I'm serious man
so yeah so that's proof right there is that you is that you you wrestled you
know once when you were eight years old and then you wrestled in freshman year
and then I mean there's kids kids that wrestle their whole lives in there that
you're wrestling against yes and how did you do I was recently say South Bay
regional champion I took third and county
I wasn't that good until 1920 for some reason this submission are at Zombo and
jujitsu years guys will beat me in high school where you said 1920 1920 19 or 20
okay go around the time I I got out sledding and coordinated I was kind of
clumsy when I was 17 so there's kids that beat me one guy beat me almost Tech
followed me which means almost got 15 to 2 on me or whatever here he's from a
local high school and I faced him in that tournament after high school and I
pinned him in 30 seconds so I don't know why I just so you were like a late late
bloomer and also you have this natural gift that you hadn't started to hone yet
and once you started to hone it it just started to make sense it was the
submission that got me really interested just okay so where do I the freights
since i'm samba right some was your introduction to I did jujitsu yes Samba
is for those who don't know it's it's a Russian grappling style I would roughly
compare it may be in the middle of judo and Jiu Jitsu because they stress a
little more wrestling than judo and a little more submissions it it's in the
middle let's say yeah so I'd say it's it's sort of like in the middle of
wrestling judo and Jiu Jitsu like yeah put all three of them together it's like
a collage if you because you wear a jacket jacket short like you wear shorts
and shoes yeah which is which is literally combination of everything you
go four foot logs whereas in judo you can't go for foot logs you can go for a
single leg double leg we're in judo you can't do that so
yeah where'd you hear about Samba my was my offseason coach named uh Gerry
Matsumoto down in my high school hilltop high school inqilab East I here in San
Diego and the offseason he was teaching this thing called Samba this is right
right before UFC one so and what's that stuff with the jacket what's this and
they said oh this is a submission what is this submission
seventeen oh you can get your arm broken I'm like and I told myself and this is
something that this one the not few several things chocolate myself share we
have in common I told myself at age seventeen even though I was
uncoordinated I said that's scary and I uh now I have
to do it I got to do it now if I don't do it now I'm flush and myself so I did
it for some reason that guys that could beat me in Greco or or freestyle I could
submit them I don't know why I have no idea why but it was making sense for me
and then what did Jesus who had fabulous sandals and you you say like you were
naturally good at Zombo and you were and you you were like the national champion
two-time national champion in Samba right yeah it's amateur at that time it
wasn't really super popular but that prepared me in the American rules of
Samba because the Athletic Commission on the Union was no twisting submissions no
chokes so straight foot lock straight knee lock and straight arm lock so you
get good recently three submission that's then yes because wow those were
the days where they thought oh like Steven Seagal grabs your neck and breaks
it you know he'll die oh you get choked you die yeah like oh by the way that
ruins war movies when I see the guys sneak again
choke some and the guys like done for the movie I'm like he's gonna wake up in
ten seconds and shoot you so kind of I had to kind of separate myself at the
moment but but yeah at that time right at the time you'll see wanted to peel
off ah so it's important for people to know that there's a key element here in
Sambo is that the foot lock the straight foot lock and the kneel the straight
knee lock was a one was the two of the three submissions you were allowed to do
Roger and you were good at him the the when I studied Higgs would tell
you this oh and our good friends Jeff Higgs I came in there and actually was
submitting guys and but they didn't like that because yeah I was this son I was
the sambhu kid oh that's right good for a while for a while I used to get people
and bear hugs from the guard and make him tap I was a mean little bastard I
made up well I don't think he's listening but if he is forgive me but
his name was John it's like he was assistant coach for Fabio and it was
blue belt for stripes I came in I caught him in full guard bear hug it's got you
tapped he screamed and then when he was crying deep but my back from the guard
that's all I knew well again you have some you have some mutated structure
that is meant more for grappling than anything it's very odd and it's and and
I you told me you would like arm lock people in there got you be in there can
you unlock yeah they'd reach for underground postulate that's it I didn't
know you can almost one from the garden I'm like well the arms there I was
taught that's wrong and well eventually I learned that that's not the best way
to do it yeah and so then it was at UFC one where you said oh do Jitsu what's
going on with that yeah because that was the time when
chokeholds were like lethal like you're gonna die well you realize not really
look at you know ii USC no one died third us a choke holds actually work and
nowadays people will sometimes say Oh Jitsu is it's not the most it's really
it's a base it's a prerequisite you have to have didn't even be competitive right
so yeah very effective very effective and of course the sport has evolved
technically over the years if you look at technology and technique are kind of
similar because they develop over time the technique of boxing now is different
in the 80s and that's different from the 50s football looks different now than
back then jujitsu is the same thing yeah right all kinds of things happening
right now that no one even envisioned back in 1995 any compound
faster right like if you watch how fast technology's gotten has improved if you
watch the jujitsu curve it's like the new moves you know back when we when we
started there'd be like a new move the only blocked yes oh my god this is crazy
that this could someone came up with something and now there's you know some
blue belt tonight came up with like a sick variation of a move and and that's
just the way it works so it's like everyone's better I I started eight
months I don't know maybe one yet maybe six months before you and so you for
sure had already twenty this time but the omoplata was a brand new move
there's someone did that I determined I was look he's doing a brand new move
yeah they would look take the VHS camcorders and look at it was like that
was a highlight that was like the Baron ball or you know now it's leg locks of
course oh so do what it was it so was it the UFC that when you wash you a few
like I gotta find a jujitsu gym and you open up the yellow pages or whatever
no knows about let yellow pages that ya know get the order never Fabio you
stabbed Fabio had an ad in the San Diego and slaughter yeah that's that's like he
was like this that's where I that's what I remember the Fabio Santos ad in the
San Diego reader I remember seeing that but it was Higgs that brought me down
yeah cuz Higgs had been trained in there for a while
so you you I mean you were good fast right sometimes like I'll think I'm
really faltering here nothing's happening and then next month I realize
I'm twice as good as I was yeah and I'll go what happened and then
I feel like I'm losing ground I think that's because you're learning sometimes
you you learn a little bit but because it's something new yeah yeah I didn't
better you actually go down and uniform it's yeah because you you don't have
that down yet yeah and then of course you get it down at a higher level of
technique now you have to here I playing that the business down a lot like
businesses want to implement a new process and I'm like you have to tell
the people that out of the gate you're gonna get less efficient with you
implement a new process you're gonna get less efficient then once you master the
new process you'll get more efficient it's the same thing with jiu-jitsu you
start implementing a new move you're gonna get worse and then once you master
the move or you give to move then you'll start getting better
again did we go real fast yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna lend to you an analogy for
that that's very simple I heard nowadays hurt kids don't even
learn cursive that I heard that I don't know but you learnt printing and you
just you're writing your name you put glitter on you give it to your mom she
put some afraid so it's a little kid writing but after a few as you're
writing your name and you could write and say we're gonna learn cursive now Oh
your cursive looks way more jacked up than your printing but it's a more
advanced form of writing so we get that down and then back then by the way
there's no typing in high school that was June or it was College so in college
you learn typing initially you just like you're slower than you would write but
eventually we learn typing C so you your performance declines until you get a
more advanced thing down in your head all of a sudden you could type 50 or 60
words a minute and there's more advanced more efficient way of typing or writing
so that's a good way i express that idea to people who may not be in business
that's simple way like that exists that's why it doesn't make sense I'm
trying to think that allergy so analogy um so we you and I I don't know why but
you and I immediately started training together like super hard all the time
you were you were one of the guys like I mentioned if I say that's kind of scary
all I got to do it all so if I say it would suck to be mounted on a wall
purpose start mounted and if we roll out of bounds most people Jacko's one of the
few guys that if we were out of bounds and and I have a good position on him he
will insists we start in the top I'll argued is actually like no put your
back where it was because I actually want to have it reset to a was harder
for me so if I go to bounce that I think that's why and the first time I slide
you Higgs he's like I had a friend named Jocko man who he gets involved he's just
kind of like man you don't know you you'll see me us no and I'm like okay so
I need you to come in and you walked in and you were like Roger yeah and first
day you got you two are mocked and and no emotion just you sit like the turrets
marketing and just that sounds like it's pretty hardcore
you know yeah yeah he was pretty hard you were training hard I was training
hard too that's why yeah I remember I just remember like almost immediately I
was training with you a lot maybe it's cuz we were I don't know we wait we
would spend three hours after Saturday yeah talking on the mat about things and
techniques like literally two hours old mat three hours of more technique every
set that Saturday of course times were different back then yeah but
I was going crazy thinking about the fact you know there's and so I don't
know if this is how you guys can tell me if this is insecurity or what but I like
Higgs came to my house and he goes now Higgs it just got his purple belt and he
came to my house and he well he called me he's like hey you want to trade who
you were and I said yeah come on over man and you know I was bigger than Higgs
and he was long and his legs go up to like his sternum so his legs he's like a
reason u2 and triangle yeah and so he came over and we went in the grass
across the street for a house day's work are you over and I was like and so again
you tell me this is insecurity but I was like I never want to have another man be
able to impose his will on me like that that is not the way that's a life way to
look at things so by the time so I've literally went down to fabio's the next
day and and signed up and he's like do you want to try a class and I was like
no I just want to sign up unlimited classes 165 bucks a month here take my
money train and I remember I remember you couldn't go immediately into the
advanced class you know to just take the beginners class and I don't know if I
talked to him or I told him like hey I can't get here until later sometimes can
I just do it and he and he was pretty cool you know he just said yeah and then
and so those times where you know I just wanted to learn as much as I possibly
possibly possibly could because I didn't want to be at the disposal of some other
human beings will it's an awful feeling there are some people that don't like
that feeling until they avoid it completely
that's actually the more common that's the more common reaction the more common
reaction is oh I don't like that situation because I get dominated and I
have to submit to another man or woman by the way yeah I have to submit to this
other man or woman and I hate that so I'm just never gonna get in this
situation the problem is as we know in life you can't always avoid those
situations in those situations can present themselves and you can't do
anything about it so so you and I just started training
like maniacs yeah the thing I was thinking about for for some reason even
in the beginning we did noogie we would take our keys off sometimes which we
would get yelled at sometimes yeah and and and for me luckily I would teach
guys in the teams and I will I just would always wear noogie I would just
always wear a t-shirt and cami pants that was like the standard Yazzie if you
want to train yeah t-shirt cami pants barefoot and so I was almost immediately
training noogie because I was training at the team and I would be training guys
even though we weren't highly skilled but I was at least understanding that
there were some nuanced differences because I didn't have the wrestling
background that you had yeah that's good because you know if you rely upon the
uniform only and that's only how you train no uniform how are you no beef
yeah yeah so then the other big thing here is I mean we were competing a lot
back then yeah we were competing a lot and those old-school Jiu Jitsu
tournaments were freaking awesome back in the day they were they were super
they were crazy they were crazy back in the day that Armenian guy and there was
a riot oh it was Ken it was it was crazy 500 Brazilians and like 20 hour meeting
guys and by the way my coach he had a thing with that coach and and I'm not
gonna say what he said but it wasn't very nice the guy actually took me down
to zero it had me in a full like almost broke my foot but I escaped and I want
eating you too I think I was tough but I've been
and Fabio's culture he's coaching me and of course the other coaches in Armenian
sings don't speak Armenian but for some reason that guy is not an official
jujitsu guy more I can shoot o samba whatever variant and right afterwards
yeah and because of that there was a riot and you get so yeah jojje it so and
I was because my match hundreds of hundreds of people chanting jiu-jitsu
and the judo the the Armenian guys were but they were actually they were great
dudes yeah like it was like the Karo Parisyan crew has all those guys they
were wicked hard fighters they were some were tough as hell and they were and
they were connected to judo gene LeBell yes is right yeah so it was that total
respect but I had respect yeah there was respect I think that the disrespect came
more from the Brazilian side and well I mean we were certainly associated with
the Brazilians because we had to present which we were doing zillion Jiu Jitsu
but yeah there was some there was some mayhem but the guy car isn't car oh yeah
and actually he's like a mathematician now yes I'm not gonna fight anymore I'm
a doctorate you know you find some strange people on the sport I mean
another way that guy he broke two people's feet this is back in the day
when mmm it was it was it was it was disrespectful to to tap to a foot lock
less you know like oh you can't tap to that you know those donuts technically
no they're not technically shouldn't after that so guys would just get their
foot broken by these you know cuz again could judo gene LeBell I mean his his
repertoire of super strong of submissions is free to raise evil and
brutal and so all those guys were coming in with that whole game plus there
whatever Zombo background they had and there were
some good good competitions and it was total mayhem but so I was thinking like
the Machado Invitational which I think you won that like four or five times you
were the champion I think for the Gracie national you won that a bunch of times
you that's right yeah the grapplers quest
back today that's still going to yes grapplers quest the group member the
grappling games never neutral grounds that's that's the last one I had the
last time I had was neutral grounds thanks true grouts
that was in the hood it was in the cage someone didn't finish the the fence work
correctly it cut you the fact it was I mean it was back in the bleedin in this
backyard and there's like 200 guys here just like that you know yelling no one's
throw anything but almost I'm sorry Emily start like like environment but
not punches that day and there's Rico Rodriguez was there he is
I I did you could be yeah yeah I went against Rico Rodriguez yeah I lost you
didn't you go against well him as well yeah yeah well let's see yeah I to
matches Higgs also we both won he being a Hickson's guy below yeah is he was
like a beast he was he was one of the that was an incredible match because
Higgs was kind of getting you know he was a lot smaller than him well maybe in
a lot but he was 30 or 40 pounds smaller than him he has a little bit he's he's
very confident but he's the more reserved
yeah impose a little more physically intimidating looking yeah is a
co-teacher yeah and it's just and they went at it and then Higgs got him in a
triangle trying arm oh yeah yes that was nice and you yeah you would
didn't you have a guy that like wouldn't give up was that you oh no that was Carl
the same guy against Rico but not just unconscious where you wake about 30
seconds later unconscious unconscious from a grappling match which is like
always fine is I'm a he's okay he's like oh he's fine he's not moving you're not
moving and I'm like I think I see his chest moving also like
mother are you sure you don't know he's fine he's trying to pick him the guys
like a limp it's so tough then tapped that his arm but match was over
yeah the man had all Frank two minutes oh they're Armenian guys salad that was
when we go Rodriguez weighed 300 pounds yes 300 pound I was 171 yeah I used to
be 170 I faced him I got to his back four times and he he finally got me the
three pounds is no joke he didn't get me in the head on you and I remember you
and I on this on this like random piece of carpet rolled out in an alley before
the fight and we're and you're you near just chillin because we knew ahead and
arm was his move and so you're just going head and arm and I'm getting out
of it getting out of it getting out of it but he got me and uh was it gay yes
it was he had spandex on those yeah fan decks bottoms at Aggie top and he he got
me in a in Anna's II kiyul from off guard yeah yeah which you know you know
you know the learning phases of jujitsu when you go I didn't know that would
work that was one of those for me I was like
I didn't know that would work I didn't think it would work you get put in
Ezekiel on me my half guard and then it worked
yeah just just aside there's a tangent we're walking to the venue we parked two
blocks down and joggle had sunglasses on and there was these two ghetto dogs like
and these were pissed off Bartles & chocolate went like this and he stared
the dogs were like I'm like nineteen years 25 and the dogs they were real
confident and you gave him that devil stare and they think he kind of backed
up they were still marking but I mean it was a fence between us but yeah first
time I seen a man just pump $2 his eyeballs kind of motivate me fit match
actually you know what was pretty cool so this is one of my favorite Dean
Lister stories you were going against again it was one of these crazy
tournaments total mayhem and so we're talking this is like 90
I don't know 97 98 something like that total mayhem and you would always get
what you'd always be in the finals or the semifinals you know on your way to
the finals cuz you would win every turn it was freakin ridiculous mmm okay not
everyone was but most of us I would do the absolute toes are usually when my
division in the absence yeah no it was awesome and I would do them do my best
which wouldn't be as good as Dean and and so when he was Dean's in this match
and he's going against this Brazilian kid and they are they're going at it and
the Brazilian gets real super fiery right super following guy and he's going
crazy and and you know it's really it's it's it's head touching but it's like a
head slap you can hear the slaps happen and you can see he this guy's going all
crazy and he goes after Dean like super hard trying to get a takedown and they
fly across the mat and he's pushing and Dean's sprawling boom and they go way
out into the stands and I'm on the side like in his corner and so I just see the
both of him disappear into the crowd and the frag crowds going crazy and it gets
quiet and the guy comes out and he's all going crazy his on fire and he's all ah
he's like come on let's go and he goes the middle for this max the master get
on his knees and starts slamming the mat ah like he's just so crazy and and I
look at and then I look back at the crowd where the hole was where they came
and Dean comes walking out he looks totally completely literally he looks
like The Terminator he comes walking out no expression on
his face comes walking out to the middle of mat and then he armlock the guy like
20 seconds later that was good and then in in that time period right is when you
do the ADCC trials actually we both the date he says Charles
in 2003 oh well 2002 I won the the trials and then I end up in Brazil
he doesn't wanna I went to Abu Dhabi I went to up with ah be a competed I
didn't win that year oh I was a purple belt we we did we did several big trial
tournaments the son that didn't materialize into actual events we did
several of these things all but the McCall fires I think that
was the first one 2001 2002 it was 2002 yeah and it was here in San Diego right
and I had like nice health club hotel and and and Kenny Florian was there
Kenny Florian was there and he was super cool and and I went against big country
really mountain and I think we're division of like 42 or something yeah
and then you had just the wars I had this all-american wrestler good
wrestling and Nate ducharme and he slammed money I found out later that he
doesn't on purpose he lets get the back and he he dives and spiritually in the
ground and it damages your knee actually saw a fence choke I registered impact a
registered like that that tired but I didn't let go to choke when he tapped
and I was like my knee doesn't feel correct and it he just rolled up like
this like double the size and I put two epic to nice leaves over it and I'm like
I don't know why that somehow focused me I didn't I didn't go I'm hurt oh this is
my excuse to quit I went I went you know it would be really cool this is somebody
psychologically you like being the underdog yeah yeah yeah I've less
pressure I think is most people like to be the favorite I like I like to be the
one that's like I like I can't win and so I had that the guy from
what's-his-name from hints of graces from New York and he attacked my leg
yeah I went after it and and he had me straight in the lock and the ref is
about to stop I looked at him like this and he's shaking his legs he played like
college ball called real athletic Patterson Jamaal Patterson oh yeah and I
got this bad choked him and I see in the court like this evil grin just like
shines and then Elena was in the finals and I won by points that one on top of
Dhabi Brazil that's also win that's also when Eddie Bravo was at the same trial
young won the trials – yeah so that was that was kind of a big deal and Dave
Terrell want his and Dave Terrell on his yeah and the one who won the heavyweight
was there's some country boy I don't know I forget his name
yeah one so we went out of Brazil and Eddie a took third but he beat up poor
de grâce yeah that was that I got more attention than me
winning the absolute yeah that was well I think some reason
yeah the toiler and but yeah you went and won the absolutes which is you know
it's free and insane that you won the absolute aqua train me so hard number
the seven ups on the on the stairs shoving ups these teens seven I'm like
seven ups by seven ups is not like what it sounds like popping that's seven
times up the stairs and under what 20 seconds okay 20 seconds it again that's
my I am tasted choco choco would do this evil maybe she'll tactic on me where
Dean jump up hit the bar and I'm like okay keep going keep going
I'm like when are we gonna stop I don't know choco has some fictitious number in
his head I have no idea but if I slow down it'd be like a 99 100 101 I slowed
down 199 my losing ground I can't stop and the stairs was like yeah up and down
seven times it wasn't a long stairway three but is like you have to you up and
down in less than 30 seconds or you have to do it SMR times and yeah good shape
yeah then there was a team's up in the top floor this we were at City boxing at
downtown San Diego there's beams and pipes and like the
beams were 14 inches taller than the pipes up then you had to jump so I'd be
like on the beam beam beam pipe pipe even when he was getting exhausted I'd
be like pipe because there's a little bit lower but yeah you were in SEC shape
and we would just grab that that time so at that time I was going to college yeah
so I all I had to do I I wasn't I was detached from the SEAL Teams yeah from
2000 2003 and all I was doing was going to college and all we did was change you
Jitsu actually yeah and we would just train and just train more and then just
train after that chuckles such a maniac he's one of the few guys say hey want to
trade his six in the morning Amaro um I'll be there 5:30 because why not
why be late you know about 9:30 not a clock a night yeah sure no he's do it no
problem Jocko will help me Kuwait one time
remember this I was fighting at 185 for the belts the
king of the cage and two weeks before the the fight this is a horse a fight
now chalk was like Dean look uh kind of muscular like her you know say muscular
you said looking a little beefy heavy like what's up and I go well it's not
fat yeah it probably did look a little heavy buddy I went you how much do way I
go I'm 218 and he went Dean what weight are you fighting in in two weeks I want
185 and a jargon one really don't you understand that 33 pounds is like an
issue and I owe my friend yeah I was 24 25 years ago my friend
Tony's like oh yeah you lied on the bathtub before that Epsom salt and he
lose 20 pounds like in an hour no problem like okay this jock was like
did you try yet like no Dean mother please get some epsom salt try it
tonight let me know oh my go ahead I'm all confident I go get epson salt I get
this alcohol like rub me I'll clip or in the bath
30 minutes later I get out with I lost like a half a pound I was like what
happened their input military like so so I'm like choco mother I think I was like
3/4 of I think I think three quarters yeah I was like like your mother may be
at the beach by the house is with so both her I don't know yeah branches yeah
six in the morning and I go there and job was like you know next two weeks you
could have like a can of tuna per day and we're gonna run and three hours
Jocko ran it with me but most people own do you know like don't watch you run you
ran me we ran all around Point Loma in by the way we're going to the beach and
I'm like oh we're gonna running on beach chocolate just over that OC wall so runs
the beach can kind of close the water and in the water I'm like okay Saigon
the water chocolates women on these cliffs and I'm
like I'm trying to catch up in her mouth I'm not a seal
I'm a strongest one but I'm not you you'd think like flippers you didn't I
flip is like I thought he's out in the surf going on its cliffs I'm like I had
done that before but he's ahead of me I'm like tired his sucks because I'm
already not eating and whatever plus I was younger so you know younger things
suck more than when he older you realize it didn't suck that bad because you're
older you have this experience so although the Mission Beach across the
bridge we swam to that well not a very clean River just went through the San
Diego River we've gone through their three-hour run not every day but maybe
for two weeks all the time and I lost 18 pounds and then of course I lost 15
pounds of water and I made the weight that was terrible that was hard I know
it's hard I fought a tough guy too so yeah it was anyone yeah yeah it was a
good day you know what I got to go back to the when you won a DCCC in Brazil
because that was freaking amazing so there's a couple things number one one
of the guys that you faced was a guy named paid upon oh yeah and and I was
reading so I couldn't go down because I was in college at the time and it was
right in final exams I couldn't I literally could not go down with you and
so you're down there by yourself in Brazil in enemy territory yeah and
you're down there and so I'm reading there's something called the it's the
underground it's the it's the mmm it's a mixed martial arts calm it's the ug
which also has the og so it's it's an old forum which still exists to this day
it used to be called submission fighting and actually yeah you and I when I was
on deployment like way back then you and I would communicate we didn't have email
so I would communicate on submission fighting calm in the threads and the
struggle yeah yeah and so I'm reading so what they're doing is someone is
translating like you know some kind of automatic watch and they're hosting what
it's saying and so it was like a literal the Americans in trouble yeah no it was
a literal is a literal translation and so paid upon Oh means cloth foot is that
right yeah but it's actually it's a card game yeah well this guy paid upon was a
guy that our instructor Fabio he's unbeatable
Zepeda fauna was this massive guy and he was a sick black belt in jujitsu and
he's like yeah this guy will never be beaten because he's so massive and he's
so good at dudes you know cuz score point on him usually he was just a
Dominator and how does anyone are gonna beat somebody that's that big and that
skilled and so Dean so I'm reading I remember I'm sitting in the parking lot
of Home Depot for some reason and the match is going on and I'm reading I'm
refreshing it on my phone and it's popping up and it's slow it's like back
in the day right Bruce is mad and I'm reading in it and I remember this thing
it says that it says the cloth foot has a choke in deep the American must have a
tube to his lungs because he is happy then you beat him and man you beat and
then you went on a one that was that was a big deal man yeah he beat I mean he
beat her doom that day and then well in their own division and but he cheated in
that match oh by the way paid upon the only guy you want to shake my hand
you talking smack he wasn't a very gracious you know by the way you could
tell a lot about a person how they conduct themselves and they win and also
how'd he lose so sure by the way he was smashing me when the points didn't count
nobody he was forty pounds heavier than me so big guy six foot six which was
seven foot six yeah 267 pounds yeah and but he he he won against bread to him
but he cheated I saw the tape and he put his arm on it it wasn't a submission out
of Bounce he cheated whenever we started so probably in a submission about to
give us in trouble he wasn't ok he was on the verge of it
being locked in but he cried moved his arms so he would he started in a more
favorable position so that was the one match where the Brazilians were kind of
trained for me otherwise no their chance for the other business but so when I won
the people were so who was the first match against which match was Nate
Marquardt Nate Marquardt and I got a good Mike Amira tough guy yeah awesome
god that was brutal yeah saalu Ribeiro and then Solow
and the zealot was already the five-time world champion of time I was a brown
belt so it was kind of for me was weird I
I had less pressure in the harder division where I was Alaska I was number
16 of the world I don't know why it just were you like I said you like to be the
underdog yeah I don't know I don't I wish I could
describe what happened that day because if I could replicate that I don't know
what happened Eric Paulson said he said Dean had a golden or around and I saw it
I don't see auras yeah I'm working there one day I want to see or like that gig
and so these guys I mean solos like like he said he's just one of the best in his
boss his brothers Roger and John history both awesome unbelievable jiu-jitsu
players and then you and then it was paid upon oh and then in the finals was
Kaka it was Kakariko Alejandra Ferreira and he he's a beast
yeah he's known for he actually was a good sport but he he had the reputation
that Tokyo has today he hurt people actually foot lock Jean gee that day he
guilts him compete oh that day and he beat Fabrice if I do him Austin just
like Winston the same guy eight zero five zero and then probably
so beat Pitt upon oh and the third fourth oh so so that was kind of like
you know this is payback you know so he went so it was a good day and the finals
I was told this guy is the best guilt in the world and the best foot locks in
Brazil for sure and he's the best wrestler in Brazil so
I'm like I thought about like what's guilt over be careful is guilty and I
thought to myself I'm not trying to act too courageous nothing like that but I
said to myself that would really suck and I go I that kind of maybe you feel
how's guillotine is you know and so I grabbed his legs and he went for it I
was like let me see how it is yeah not that I wanted yeah I kind of I wanted to
escape it it's kind of weird anyway had to play with the fire I wasn't yeah I
was in it and he really I heard the crowd yelling and I hear the crowd get
silent cuz he has me so tight not over my ears but I'm getting choked really
somehow I'm I guess I'm slightly resistant to submissions I heard and and
I'm not saying like I can see the light like the tone and he started getting a
little tired and as soon as L bones yeah yeah that's good technically that was
the reason but but uh I may be a an echo something so he eventually got
tight let go and I saw his eyes he was just I got him I knew at the moment and
then we start in the middle and I went for a foot lock and he was real calm
when a full lock and that 50/50 we did call for 215 yeah I said let's try it
and I did it and his eyes you can see he doesn't know what's going on and he
would I eat that well more of a macho I like I got him
and then of course I couldn't believe it at the moment because Abu Dhabi is well
it's the equivalent of the Olympics for our sport and it's the there are limpid
wrestlers in Abu Dhabi there's sambal geysers Olympic judo guys
the best jujitsu guys are in this and it's a whole girls invited and the
winner gets 40 G's baby so there's no it's kind of that pain you I was tween
seven yeah yeah it is and it's funny so I'm number 16 but I have no quote
margarita came down keep saying you're number 16 you in the number six tell us
seed yeah exactly and and that's how you end up being one
but so I'm warming up I have no coach until margarita came down for for the
the last three matches I'm shadow boxing I've no everyone's rest over the coach
I'm just like shadow boxing a weirdo by the way I didn't think I was gonna be in
the tournament so I wore my Brazilian tities because I don't usually fight in
the compete in those I use it where surf trunks but I'm like I in case I'm
invited oh my I sweat pants oily so I'm in rights beaten
basically speedos warming up shadowboxing all on yourself and I
looked up and this just only Brazilian girls looking down at me like oh my god
and one girl goes hey come here and I should have done it but you know this
girl kept it on the cover of magazine and I want she said
hey come over said that how are you doing and Portuguese was not that good
back then I was like a little being he would say I'm good how are you
and she said in Portuguese – oh you're not Brazilian are you and I said no and
she went she turned her back and she called me over and then turn their ways
jacked up so I'm like alright let's turn sharp focus focus
and then up I got through this thing and then at
this moment I don't know why this is but the champion gets like 95% of the
attention the guy took second is equal level of me maybe it could be me a
different day I must admit I'm like I say it could never lose to that guy he's
really good but I have a line a thousand people are waiting to meet me and take
pictures with me so I'm in the I'm still in my Brazilians
tidies you know and then you know guys hey what's up hey and girls um hey kids
and you know and I can picture and it's after half hour I see this girl like a
people don't like hi I'm like I'm like mental note like so she waits we did
like it hours to me and she finally within earshot she's like in Portuguese
mermie hey I knew you could do it she's a Portuguese moment you know
whatever she gets up to me and I'm sure Irish guy would have would have caved
into this but I i skipped her just like that and uh she still love you dog look
at this her ties on an idea that was like you either try and moral victory of
that game it was awesome so the when when you were doing that I remember and
when you and getting ready for that first of all we trained freaking hard
like crazy and I remember Sarge since to push you as hard as we possibly could
like Sarge could start to better wrestle him see he would do the takedowns with
you and then as soon as you guys would hit the mat I would jump on top that's
right and that way and get you just as tired as we get you but also I didn't
think about it this way but man a lot of times when you and I would be training
like we would just sit there and try and felt like each other for half an hour I
mean you'd be like it's which is weird because now that's very common to see he
was really doing that actually yeah no one was doing it back then
and now you see tournaments and that's what the tournament is it's just a bunch
of people trying to felt like each other yeah and I'll sit there he'll hook the
lock and when when we were doing it that's why like when I look back on I
was like no one was doing that you would never see anyone sit there and trade
foot locks and heel hooks for twenty minutes as we're actually rolling trying
to submit each other but we're just trading and trading and trading and that
gave you such an advantage when you know you new moves you had
techniques that were just no one even understood the position and now you hear
John Danaher talking about it you know and I heard John Danaher talking about
the fact that you know he teaches his guys to get people in a position that
the other person isn't comfortable with right and that's it that's what you were
doing wait way back then was hey I'm gonna
take you to somewhere that you do not understand what's happening and you will
be confused and I'm gonna crush you and on top of that you know your natural
like I said up mutant skills and all that and it just turns into well I guess
it turns into World Championship is what it turns into it was a good day you know
you know the fit became what I won with the 50/50 I think I didn't have a name
for that position I I was reading Portuguese from some respectable older
guys I won't say names but people I loved it up to we're saying basically
this is a disaster this green gringo means foreigner it's not a slur it just
means foreign it does M foreigners coming down here this is not judging –
what the hell repeated by different people and I'm like okay well you know I
looked at my gold medal in my trophy and I'm like I don't feel so bad actually
you know but that few months later I hear about a position called the 50/50
I'm like I want to see it and I go oh now it's accepted it's a resilient move
now yeah also I want the move I got Salomon no one was doing that knee lock
now it's commonplace crowbar I forget if it was you or me that came up with the
idea but you for sure came with the name crowbar I heard in Russia with a crowbar
don't like and they're doing crowbar in with the keys on my hand that's been
around joking like man all these kind of things you know what maybe someone's
done it before me but you brought a legit actual military gas mask on the
treadmill you're like Dean puts on it what the hell I look like a lady from a
damn whore and so now everyone's wearing gas masks that look at them train ass
but these aren't real gas masks this is actual I'm running I was like if you
slow down we're adding in their appointments okay
I did it I didn't complain but yeah we were like doing stuff before most people
it was good times yeah that was pretty awesome and also at this whole time
period you were also fighting MMA yeah and and you were king of the cage you
fought a bunch of fights in qinger kg with a middleweight champion king of
cage pretty and then that's when king of the cage was sort of a feeder
organization for pride which was when pride was the equivalent was of one UFC
until you every part of the world yeah you know it was it was very very popular
the fights were awesome they had the best fighters well I can't say they had
the best fighters because they had they had equivalent fighters of I think they
were one knotch at that time I think they're one not to
love you some of them but some of them came to the UFC and didn't do as well as
well the pride didn't just you know yes work both ways it different rules let's
say it's equivalent I won't say it's better it was definitely it was
definitely so you were in the feeder organization for Pride and then and then
you went to pride but can the cage was third it was considered the third
hardest in the world yeah yes I don't even think yeah underneath that was just
a completely unknown thing and you and I got lucky because well I got lucky
because I was hanging out with you and we would go to Japan and we saw some
pretty pretty crazy fights in Japan too we have remember that time we were is
pool hall like it's late night like 1:30 know whatever was midnight maybe we're
playing pool and there's this VIP area it's a it's actual Apple lounge and
there's this big Japanese bodyguard there and so it's beyond the music and
stuff and it's try to getting these like he's like like I guess that means no you
can't come in and we're just hearing the voice that's what that's when he had
lost to Yoshida yes he's come by with a bunch of let's say connected Japanese
friends and he sees us he was hey Dean chuckling gets his in there and it's
it's like a karaoke lounge and it was Lionel Richie's voice coach was singing
there yeah it was just nuts and and uh dude I met Lionel Richie's
voice what's up oh yeah that we saw so seeing those big fights in Japan when we
saw Nogueira fight Bob Sapp so no Bureau was no gears 100 earths are 230 pounds
maybe 200 350 yeah Bob zaps 350 pounds he beat the living crap out of Nogueira
for however long 7 min yeah and then Nogueira got him in an arm lock Plata
sweep arm lock that was open the arms he was in the National Stadium there's like
a hundred 25 they had kettle drums do you know if those are echo you know the
kettle drum is just big giant drums and there was a troop of Japanese drum
players so when this thing kicked off these guys are surrounding the top of
the stadium with kettle drums doom doom doom doom doom dude it was on fire and
Dean and I were there you know and we flew actually flew over with the voice
for those things organ was there I think yeah that's right man it was just I
think Bergen was then in the walk out on Rogers you know he was somewhere else
but it's guys or a pair of shooting in like oh yeah it was at you know in okie
yeah he's like he has a cameras like I'm at 20,000 feet he's like I'm falling in
the is like in the they come down and they land like in the ring is for crazy
it was crazy and then you ended up for you know obviously since you're the
communication PU ended up going a pride you had some sick fights and pride you
fought well you beat so G yeah and you is a he was like a warrior
yeah and then you had a beast of a fight against aronia I also face the this and
then I well I didn't get to fight Paulo Filho because he got his uh you guys
like broken but I was so far job I'm also live from Russia sounds like
sound like I'm making them up but he legitimately became a hitman for the
Russian something the syndicate Russia killed a couple politicians and they
arrested him because apparently you can't do that and isn't confirmed he
died in prison of cancer and in Russia if you killed few politicians they just
go we're not going to take care of your cancer too much
I'm rot away you died I died like two years ago so he's in prison that guy you
seen him before his nose was only broken that guy became a hit man and so I
fought that guy and aronia was that was a hard match that wasn't i'll take
ownership of the situation I'm not I'm not making excuses but explanation wise
it was not I was not my normal self for that fight but it was hard fight I lost
by decision it was good hundred thousand people in the crowd was awesome that was
he walked down Z my friend Tim Tim comas he uh he me I walked it to one songs and
Hans was there it was good brent was there and then and then eventually you
get picked up by UFC so I transferred at the right time yeah 2005 six I just
transferred and perfect time transfer actually they had some good scraps I was
actually in overseas now because I was back at a team for a while so I was kind
of out of the out of the fight game for a little bit or still training yeah and
when I was with you but um you had a bunch of fights in UFC by the way but
make sure that I don't forget to tell the kill jock was story I got to tell
that story later but I'll just tell her right now well I'll see but but um okay
so I was not I mean it wasn't pride at the time Chako went to Afghan I think I
think it's my first deployment to run for a couple months and then it was
maybe I was just doing or maybe I'm not sure but you were gone and you come back
and my mom had this medication I had acne and thought it was some kind of
antibiotic helped it but I didn't know it made me really weak and took my
endurance away this is actually true this is not an excuse it sure is so
Junko comes back and I'm not really feeling that good talk about it strain
I'm like okay and chocolate that kicks my ass and shock was like literally he's
angry is like your lazy mother I'm in the desert I'm doing this and you you
sitting on your ass here in San Diego do nothing and I kicked your ass and what
and I'm like yeah I'm just like I just like it I'm like a shame in myself cuz
and then you go away for like a month if somewhere you're gone and I'm like and I
but that many case we were at 10 days and I stopped and I feel strong again
I'm like oh I understand now so I'm training I'm like mother when the tide
comes back I can't wait for this I made a CD this kill Jocko and it was I had
like corn and Metallica Saul he's like mr.

Jock came and I'm like hey jogo and
I put this Indian and then we training that was my day
I think I was like talking shit dude like you my feelings were hurt
and here's what sucks everybody is so if if both of us are on point I'm get I'm
catching a beat-down if but so both of us are bringing our a-game I'm catching
a beatdown if Dean's bring in his a-game and I'm
bringing my week game I'm catching a beatdown
if I'm bringing my full a game and beans having a horrible day I could do like
barely okay so it's like every day's the day the really good days that I have are
very few I have to I have to earn them I'll put it to you that way I have to
earn them and then so you do UFC you do decent UFC you have some tough fights I
would fight three four ranked in my division my my only two losses my
decision was Nate Marquardt and you know commie and they both after that fight
fire and it's the syllabus I was two times right there front for the belt I
was top five top four no I don't care tops it but I fought to fight in silver
and I lost both those matches but the ideal for I want and my first fight was
at least the Sokka was from Italy's really tough fighter fat he probably the
fastest hands and actually I figure this out later I was the underdog but they
were actually trying to feed me to him he was gonna fight chocolate alley or
stepping stone Oh supposedly yes most and this crudo
they've already planning like he's gonna fight Chuck Liddell cuz he is probably
he has faster hands he'd probably Chuck has a really good chin better wrestling
but saqqara faster hands better boxing so I'll have them fight after that's
what I heard but that day a I got in the same triangle guys showed you a carrion
and but he topped shoulder here with
sleep so both my debuts were won by the same move and it's tough guys so then I
find a letter Japanese opponent I find a Bulgarian Olympic wrestler I fought Nate
Marquardt you should have call me and I fought Jeremy Horn so six fights in USC
so my career has been focused on jiu-jitsu more nogi is because when you
do MMA you don't you don't have a gear came along so it kind of wasting your
time if you're training and that aspect and you don't have a key on you can how
to grab the belt how to do this kind of wasting your time so yeah I've
distributed my time between mixed martial arts and grappling Jiu Jitsu and
and you weren't done either because you went back in 2011 yeah you IMPAC and
well 2009 was that two thousand nine thousand nine we were in Barcelona Spain
Dona and yeah I was just well coming up by surgery what's my it wasn't my year
yeah yeah and those are some close matches I mean I was thinking about it
double overtime Demichelis yeah and we next year we both want our divisions
gold medal so is the first match in the absolute yeah one it was double overtime
0-0 and oh yeah the judges we were looking sir like huh and the races who
did he have an apart on you yeah that's why I won because I had him to foot lux
oh that's right you had him into foot lock seeing him in one pods on March 2
Jitsu ish I think that's why yeah and then yeah 2011 I I don't know I probably
was a harder tournament but I'm not saying it wasn't easy to go sin or that
was something aura came back you don't know why I don't I have no
idea why but I yeah you showed up and first match what was hard match actually
he's my friend now Gustav arrived from Sao Paulo Brazil very tough guy I
thought that I'm top three or four seated right I was wrong he was he was
like three and I was number 14 because now I'm 30 I'm 35 and he's like
25 others get this old guy yeah knock him out of this then I won I'm like that
was the one the lowest rent guys that was a hard match my points second guy
was the European champion I fell off him like two minutes and then we have one
day to rest and I'm facing Rudolf ovios and total be someone could beat this guy
and he's like 21 and I'm 35 and this it was it was it was a not marching in
England I can't I can't do that accent damn it but Nottingham England we were
there and at the hotel I popped my rib I didn't want even know my ribs pop like
it during the match yeah turn the lights for the Polish guy
ironic to Uruk European champion – love me and I'd turned out of it at popular
ribbon I got his heel and I'm like my rib is is unsatisfied up – it's not up
to standards you know so I'm like it hurts right now and I'm warm right so I
sat down I waited for everyone leave the arena so they wouldn't see me like a
limping home to the hotel so I owned one see you know a peer strong one you're
weak very weak when you're strong so I was let's say weak at that moment I
don't want people to see that so I got real slow back to hotel and there's guys
downstairs hey Dean you're facing a little fear tomorrow yeah do you know
how good that guy is I'm like yeah I heard no do you actually understand what
you're getting yourself into like okay just stop it man just get the fuck get
away from you and I'm trying to get my head kind of motivate me actually I like
this you like to be an underdog man next day I showed up oh and I sawed it off
here who's competing with spandex on I'm like oh yeah it's harder to slip out of
leg locks next day no shirt and no Spanish someone taught him something so
I faced them and yeah he's you know he's like the future this boy awesome great
sport as well but I got him in a but I think four minutes I got his heel in the
411 mm which no one was doing in a moment so
my 50/50 and 411 was two of my nine lives of innovation yeah after I did
that people started doing it yeah yeah of course when I did it no one
understood what was going on so it was like a it's like a secret weapon just
total collision yeah and then wanna cease also he beat
Georgie I took him out and mounted them so be someone like Jean Jean Jean C's is
also super high level and but see mental mental games I'm older and ten years
older than she well so I went now at the time that I speak Portuguese so I'm in
his quarters Neil xenovia Leo knows man he knows a lot guys so so
I'm like and I heard that Jawara has good foot locks and whatever so I'm kind
of talking like to him I'm like hey let him up be that keen I'm saying my foots
right here come on and I'm a wiggly and my feet like in his armpit like it go
for it and he's like scatter he goes I don't think so man
and then he was like no no see before the match like he's not he's not cocky
but I could see he has a little pride I could just tell him he's younger than me
so I'm like them play that I came I'm like let him play on my game you know
yeah it's good for Lux but that's my words Forte let's say so eventually I'm
like a man that's right here I heard you have good full oxide I was too much he
went for my foot and then see the thing is like right when you get old you gotta
use those little tricks you know sometimes weeks you did that thing where
it when they go for your foot that lightens up your punch me I'll punch you
back but rather as punch yes but I have to be confident I can take a punch right
well I'm somewhat confident that I can resist a leglock or counter and time and
it all worked you know it's funny cuz I'm sitting here laughing at laughing at
that but you do that to me ya know you know you don't fall for those yeah but
then like I will eventually like I'll be like I can get this and I'll just go for
it and then you'll you'll get over on me from yeah exactly I get group that's
jungle sin greed went back again in 2013 friend took silver to Zuma he won that
year he won that year how many when I went for and I talked the referees
afterwards it wasn't their fault I went four leglock and he used that
exact moment to suite me I did it wrong though I got greedy at that time he had
the arm position I went for the wrong move technically if the referees knew I
was going for like it's not a sweep but now he's up I'm down by points by one
point I have him a triangle and he's really strong he's flexing his lad I'm
like I have 30 seconds I haven't been locked in triangle but it's all I was on
the opposite side I'm like you know what he's doing the muscle is out wind at one
point so I open up my full guard from the bottom
turning my stomach back so he actually won four for four so you're trying to
five or something yeah because otherwise I can mentally be
like you know what little races through your mind
you know I I know I'm gonna lose but I would say I would have submitted them
like you know but I'm gonna lose the only chance I have really unless I have
been there two minutes then it's different so I had to take a chance
there's a one in ten chance and it didn't pay off
I took silver I was really upset about taking silver but in the end Abu Dhabi
Silver's not too bad right no second best in the entire world that's pretty
type gold one time silver and then you did the absolute that year too did right
yeah that's right yeah so that's one of my favorite matches that you've ever
done this against buchecha lost which it was tied up
0:04 nine minutes and he he's like 22 I'm 35 and now I'm 37 now and and it was
how does this weird cuz that was intimidate but he's a very humble guy
yeah but people are he's really strong and athletic very technical so I was
like okay be careful this might be careful I'm gonna give him my leg you
know I just walk out hopping after on my leg and he's like what the hell and he
grabbed my leg took me no there's no points
he had means to submission I'm three submission it was awesome at the end I
took him down got mounted but my foot was stuck so it didn't count any OPA
moves me shoulder roll and Portuguese over that's two points nah baby boom
means it actually it actually means shoulder roll or is that just I thought
is just a nose that that's all bye okay bye
his shoulder roll bit and if you talk to someone doesn't do jujitsu
oh but doesn't mean shoulder roll it means Jitsu turn okay so oh by my
shoulder well yeah escape them out so he did that and he's the one Dan Brazilian
who has a wrestler bridge like he breezed up on it took me over and I'm
like goddamn ax and I know that move for like almost 14 years old but he took me
over and I was in my full guard he's up 2-0 anyone like that so good night
that's on YouTube go watch that match if you wanted to see we were exhaust yeah
that well that is that is just a beast of a match nice a beast of it I could
not unless a cook yeah couldn't move my shoulders afterwards and I'm like this
is gonna suck you know it's weird because you had
injuries along the way obviously like you ready
knee surgeries have you had to and and but those were when you were pretty
young right yeah but I'd say older it's like my shoulder my bicep I you were
there in the gym when my bicep snapped yeah that was terrible sparring another
thought you were like way what I voted this church dun dun yeah I just booted
yeah I was the guy was walking with his elbow he's trying to knock me out so I
was like oh I'll knock you out didn't just won't wat I wasn't really warm yet
and I hit his elbow if I bicep in person and terrible I'm like I didn't know you
could snap your bicep but you can yes you confirmed yeah double-double
confirmed yeah what do you do when you win like when you got an injury what's
what's your philosophy around trying to get it to heal because people get
injured during jujitsu you know it's it's difficult for me because but I can
try to make it as simple as possible si Jitsu boxing any kind of a
confrontational thing which you are an expert in in the military but also in
jujitsu I mean even if it's not fun because you're getting smashed you're
not bored you're not bored so you can't train jujitsu me now I know we're
different I personally don't like looking at
myself in the mirror I don't like that at all but and with weight tight I get
bored personally and I want to have someone trying to hurt me I won't get
hurt but that at least I can be mentally immersed in the issue so that makes a
hard for me so personally I I focus on other things
like learning languages or traveling or doing seminars things like that how many
languages do you speak at once o team speak seven languages no I I speak three
in the way that I can make jokes I can argue and I can spell I can write and I
can read Portuguese Spanish in English French I can I can have a conversation
but I'm not smooth I have a big accent I couldn't make jokes and I couldn't
effectively argue unless it's not like Borat nice I can do that maybe I was
sound like Croatian was miracle crops coach for next seven years
like survival like I want to go there how are you like you know
three or four or five depends on your definition even German I can kind of get
around a little bit but it's just on the street asking for directions and stuff
like that it's not good so three I guess three I'll say three three solid let's
talk some jujitsu philosophy it's gear no geek
that's like saying what do you like doing better long-distance running
versus sprinting or judo versus wrestling kickboxing our boxing there's
different sports they're related they're similar there are some a lot of
mechanical similarities so he is better for it does help you get a tighter style
but if you're wasting not wasting let's say yeah yeah if you're gonna be doing
noogie and I know I know some I don't know anyone watching those knows the
significance of this a wrestler knows right away this is wrong this is this is
the cable grip this is the Esk rip they're fine
this is the BS grip it doesn't work a lot of world champions the only shrink
they're all over sleeve and belts they grab like this mm-hmm
because they're taught to rely upon the uniform so if you rely upon the uniform
and you don't have the uniform now 80% of your tools are gone so I think it's
good to both it's normal to prefer one over the other but don't discount no key
is more technical and faster in the transitions absolutely and the fact that
you you can slip out of something easier means that transition to the next move
faster but key has more options I have many chokes I can do I can grab my own
belt wrap it around your wrist you can't do that without key so that's only so
some people say some people say key is more technical but I don't believe that
it's more technical different there might be I guess no I was gonna say
maybe there's more technique but there's not there's it's equal I just think
they're equal yeah and they're equal to technical because to hold someone down
with the key is a lot easier you get someone across side with the key like
you're gonna hold them down you get a cross side with someone with nogi it's a
lot harder to hold them down because there's nothing to hold onto
yeah and suit so it makes it harder that's why I think nogi makes your
offense better he makes your defence yeah
harder to slip out of things if you're in a submission with ghee it's hard to
slip out of this you know you can get lucky it's really hard you're not really
gonna let bad things also if you train with wrestling shoes
it's different if you ate with the fatigues it's different they'll train
with it Marines with the team guys or train the police whatever done in Brazil
as well I mean they train like how there aren't duty you know so having someone
with a you know fatigues on they still call them fatigues you know yeah I used
to just go to camis camis that's that's cute
sorry dude that's what I call them get your camis on yeah BDUs there we go yes
we are I'm everyone I know we just call them camis fatigues
maybe it's cute to you hold up should a human being pole guard in a fight know
Oh unless it's a controlled like yo see I pull garden one but that's because
there's one person right there and their forte is striking and mmm to the end of
my clothes the end of my career people wouldn't fall for that they just get the
hallway from me but I've won if he fights were even one the guy was across
side on top and he could have just got away from me but he he proceeded to
attack me and then I reversed an and triangle arm off I was Kingsley he's my
friend now very tough guy but you know he engaged
my strength so you could same thing like cro cop probably the most notorious high
kick in history MMA you know you broke a lot of grounds with that average guy you
wouldn't say just so let's I kick the head yeah it's not gonna work that well
but it works you do it really well I would say it's a good strategy and a
fight but it's good to do because you get to a situation where you're familiar
you have hold you have your legs and your arms engaging the opponent and you
can work from there but you have to have a good guard you can't just oh I'm gonna
sit on the bottom and be good all but across my feet and I'm fine no you got
beat up in a fight yeah so if you if you're good there you can do it it's not
a general thing I would recommend though yeah you know it's I was just
remembering that when you fought Nate Marquart in the UFC
that was the what bummed me out about that is I can hear Jackson going do not
draw a punch garden use just like so stick to the game plan so
Jackson who is a really smart strategist really smart and I'm kind of like you
know your strategist it was like my strategy I'm supposed to be cornering
you and telling you what to do strategy wise and Greg Jackson is on the other
side telling Nate what to do strategy wise and after the fight I was even
during that well that's what pissed me off was that during the fight I didn't
recognize quickly enough what was happening and what was happening was
Nate Marquardt was just not moving so all he was doing was waiting for the
referees stand up and I can't expose nothing cuz you know Nate was better on
the feet he's also black button Jitsu but he didn't want to play around
there's no what why take the chance right the chance is there's a there's a
much higher percentage of him getting submitted than it is of him getting
knocked out by you yeah so he would just literally hold Dean and wait and I got
strategically beat by Greg Jackson now I love Greg Jackson I think he's an
awesome guy and I've hung out with him he's a super guy and like it bummed me
out that he tactically we strategically beat me with that plan which was
Hayward's gonna hold and we're gonna wait for the referee stand up and it was
something that we didn't train for yeah we didn't train for it until later then
we started training for like okay the the other thing we had to start training
for is someone that runs away from you right because a lot of guys they would
they would just try and get away from you that's all they wanted yeah and and
so that's that's very difficult to contend with I wish that we could like
have a fight and I get an elevator mr.

Champion I can't get away or like in
a movie theater like I'm sitting next to you ready go roll you were meant for
that you were meant for that do you what do you think about when you see all of
you locks that's become such a huge focus of the game right now I'm kind of
like I told you so you know you're in the middle of had about ten years of
yeah you do a good with that somehow but we don't you know that's wrong yeah it
oh by the way Jim Acosta yeah kid be lead will ya he actually told me
when I was blue because you know Dean this for Lux it's kind of like tacky and
when I want he was there in Brazil when I want he walk you went in English she's
Brazilian but yet he was Lister thank God you didn't listen to me at the time
he was just that was the way and yeah I do use some cliches but some cliches
makes sense when you know the rules now you could break the rules yeah if
you don't know the rules hmm so I know the rules and you can get away doing
that because no one else is doing that and sometimes I break rules because I
don't want to react in a way my opponent will predict so easily I'll do something
wrong because it's unexpected I'll do something that well those who don't do
jujitsu may not understand this but I'm in you guard always mom down inside
you're like I'm a white belt knowing you'll go for a triangle yeah and as you
look around guard yeah no no I know you I won't tease that's a white ball
they'll get card triangle yeah so I do things like that just because it's weird
and I'm worried too a bit yeah so that's my style a box yeah what do you think
about some people talk about the self-defense techniques of jiu-jitsu and
or the lack of self-defense techniques for just you now what I will say is this
I've been in some self-defense classes that you're teaching and you don't focus
it on a lot but occasionally you'll do itself and I act almost every time you
teach one of those self-defense classes I pick something up I learned something
okay well I it is true when we were young starting it was from born from the
UFC let's see motive it was like oh boys
Gracie that was the main thing it takes a crazy you know valet to toe and back
then at least your coach could fight or has been in fights
I'm not criticizing anyone but it's a martial art martial being what or
confrontation I'm not saying you want to be in confrontational or be in fights
but if you can't use jiu-jitsu to defend yourself when it counts most
and I don't know as it's not really martial art anymore so
yeah on the other hand if you think that I've had people tell me this oh yeah and
I saw you you could fight in UFC but you know if you tried that me I poke your
eyes and then I go okay thanks for letting me know warning me because
that's kind of scary I could poke their eyes to I don't tell
them because yeah child's argument see if you do one class one time you know
that's why you have to roll and do it in for boxing
you need someone actually throwing punches at you and learn how to stop
those and move away from the punches just hitting a bag or brick and not hit
back you know so let's see if anyone here listening is under 25
no wonder stand what that means but so having this putting yourself in hard
situations ask it just was all about problem solving you know you get to a
situation then you learn how to solve the problem you get relaxed and you
learn to deal with this I think that's really important to know how to relax
how to conserve your energy as you said no one went to attack
there's sigh OPS's there's mental tactics there's you know you could tell
a lot about a person how they fight you can see if they're dirty
if they take shortcuts if they have a temper you can see if they're patient
you can see if they're explosive you can see if the last two days ago lacks two
days ago you can see it a lot of things about somebody if they're greedy that's
why I'm laughing he's gonna D accuses me of being greed and he's right I will get
greedy with a move and I'll hang on to something that I shouldn't hang on to
and I'll end up in a position that I shouldn't be in and then Dean will
immediately start going green you know you know well you know you can tell a
lot about a person by how they fight and also how they handle defeat and how they
handle the victory that's why I don't do it as an outward display but every time
I win against someone I I never run around yelling i-i-i check on them and
if i was lose i shake him upon his hand I'm not there's nothing I'm not saying
anything I'd know about that but but that's something I always strive to be
as some of this respectful you can see as you said humility is taught and
people don't like to be humbled they're probably not going to last very long of
doing a martial art especially jujitsu because it's such a
close and personal like you got owned no escape our belongs to Jocko there's no
demand there's no debate you just got tapped out you can't lie in a fight you
just got tapped out now with some other martial arts it's like well you know if
this was a real fight I would have done this better or if I would have punched
him harder I would have done something else I would have done something
different it's like if you did – you just got you got put in a position where
this dude could have ripped your shoulder apart yeah or put you to sleep
and killed you so so there's there's truth in jiu-jitsu and that's why it's
so humbling so I said you could tell up I how someone is okay if we have us more
like okay golf or sprinting okay these are all sports and they're good but know
how someone swings at our Golf Club I can't talk too much about the
personality but if someone takes a punch and they look right back to you and they
punch you back that person's there's something about that guy that's
different than the average guy he turns away and runs away okay if someone tries
armlock me and I relax and I escape I time it quickly okay there's timing this
technique of course make some kind of sense I don't know back to the salt
offense aspect yeah I think I think you should be prepared for worst-case
scenario and actually for some weird reason now that I can't fight I don't
know one even messes with me I don't I don't I'm not going to try to pick
fights where they want it for some reason like no one even tries to fight
me right now I wonder why but you know you know you know in Japan
Russia Brazil whatever Croatia in any country you'd imagine I'd been to for
some reason and I'm by far like not a criminal or something like that but for
some reason you get you get a lot of these gangster mafia type guys that are
fans and you end up hanging out these guys and it happened in Russia
I'm not glorifying anything but these guys you would even know they're
gangsters these guys are powerful powerful guys
you want to anger and also Jaco himself maybe hey Chacko what do you do I'm an
investor um chocolate were you in the Navy yes I was in the Navy choco what
did he do in the Navy well I okay I was just whereas maybe a 19
year old kid who wants to be a seal will be like I'm gonna be you know he's gonna
say it and a young fighter or someone wants to be a fighters and be like yeah
us our militia fighters you get a really established fighters it's not not gonna
usually say I'm a fighter I break those arms and it's not using
that way also some of the richest people I know you wouldn't know the rich
because but I've met girls I've dated girls who they have one nice dress
they're poor as hell but look they look like the rich were they going on they're
trying really hard to look great right so it's interesting how how when when
you understand things more it's like I don't think yet the sounds corny to
prove it I think you just just know you know higher understanding about that the
confrontational of human beings I've talked about how when you grow with
someone you've never rolled it before you meet someone and as soon as you make
contact with them as soon as you clinch up with them you can tell what's up and
you can you can kind of tell like okay this is gonna be this guy knows what
he's doing this because this person doesn't really know or they're okay or
wait a second I'm not 100% sure but I'm gonna find out pretty quickly member
sacha dude his aura was strong yeah his austere wastrel sasha is look
like Shrek funny move ya know the creationist released bro if you got
Shrek and like took of his green skin but like a pale polar bear white skin oh
yeah it was like a Shrek and he actually he wouldn't mind me saying this because
no one really knows this before me I'm he was quote Hobbes main training
partner and he didn't speak English he speaks Spanish
he served us some prison time in Spain for a felony let's say okay and so we
were talking to Spanish the whole time and he came to San Diego visit that's
how you met him than that guy you know the first time I trained with him at
crow cops Jim Crow up has a gym under his house is full gym with a key do you
think Sasha weighs at 2:30 probably dude look out a ways of that his neck on the
size of this 2005 plays five foot nine ten you know and he has really good
hands that guy's hardcore he was what's up with his head
come on hey this great guy I don't think he and cro cop are in touch anymore i'm
not really for some reason in court are so much anymore
but uh he was the resident grappling guy slash coach training partner so I
arrived and I'm like I'm kind of like the new guy like in this team and he
looks at me and there was that little bit of like oh it is the new guy yeah
and we train and he got me in and well an armlock behind the head and I'm like
I'm not tapping this and I got an I got him and I'm like I should adapt to that
because it was the first time you know I'm not gonna I don't know yeah and he's
probably do the same thing they're being real good friends he's a better wrestler
than me and a better boxer than me and he has good submissions but my in his
head yeah yeah uhit's part of me you hit his head it can actually hurt your hand
he'll just take you want me to blink his eye he's really confident guy he's solid
yeah so you get some freaks like that a bowling ball of fury yeah
what should beginners focus on in jiu-jitsu finding a good coach is
imperative because you need some kind of direction and in the end or hopefully
sooner than later you start developing your own way even if it's a little a
little variation of what your coach is saying maybe it doesn't have to be some
champion someone you connect with you can hear not listen you can hear what
they're saying because someone I might I might say something and on the dagger
mom would say the same thing and a slight variation it will make sense
maybe he says over me and vice versa I've had people both ways Tommy you know
something that you will say made more sense or something that someone else
said the same exact thing but said in a different way so finding a coach it's
really important also well humility will be taught by itself
yeah so that goes without saying I always tell people relax there we go
yeah of course relax of course but that's difficult for
a beginner because you don't want to relax you want to win that's why I try
and make it so evident that that's the most important thing you should do you
know a lot of people also ask me like what schools you know I live
in Cleveland I live in you know what school should I go to and I think one
thing that people should realize these days the days of like hey there's some
shyster that's running around saying he's a black belt there's not a lot of
those guys left anymore because it has just overtaken us and they just get
called out so so I think if you go to a place that has a website that lists the
instructors names the instructors maybe show some of their competitive history
they show their lineage of where they got their black belt from it's all good
you can't put that stuff on the internet you can't say I got my my black belt
from coiler Gracie and and not if you didn't and expect to have like expect to
get away with that so you know who Raphael Torre was he was the candidate
yeah yeah so that's back to Rome they were like they were like yeah um so he
said I can you drive me out to the forest either kumite to go to and they
drove him out there and he got out with all the stuff went the forest and came
back like three hours later like a trophy ya know Rogan that was a drover
anybody I beat I'm paraphrasing by the way yeah that guy was yeah yeah yeah
fix fights it's like you fought a student it was work it was a worse about
fifteen years ago of course he's in prison now yeah so that guy this is an
example of what it used to be like a guy could show up somewhere in LA yeah put a
black belt on and be like yeah I'm a I'm a black belt I got my black belt in
Brazil I trained down there for four years and I'm a black belt and I won
this and I won that he didn't win anything and he was just a liar but
these days I'm telling you if you find out if you find a place online it lists
the instructors the instructors names are there you can google the instructors
names you can see if they've every instructor has competed at some point
right I mean if someone's I would say 95% of instructors have done some
competition at some point there may be a few very small percentage of instructors
that have never competed and I don't even know if that's possible
if you if you google your instructor if your instructors never compete
I would definitely be suspect possible but yeah it's not likely competition
like I said you can see how someone is and the truth you don't say one piece of
advice I will give to people is okay I'm in Cleveland whatever or there's a
school whatever five go to each school don't say you live there say I'm
visiting from that's you're lying but it's white life yeah it's okay
god I'll forgive you you say here listen I'm a white belt I'm from Florida
I'm just passing through I have no explain so you're not getting the sales
pitch you know the instructors representative his real self is trying
to press you so you sign a contract sign a contract is okay but if you believe in
and the instructor you like what he's saying you like the environment because
then as a visitor you're gonna see like this this person not trying to sell me
something you can see how to actually are and if you hear what they're saying
it's making sense to you and you you've i'b with the energy or let's say the
style or the personality of the other the instructor go to all five gems in
this and pay the day fee twenty thirty bucks and try it and then come back
which one do you like best and then try it out and yes Jesus is awesome because
also you're not getting hit in the head yeah you know I love boxing boxing cube
it's awesome I've done it at a high level I've fought well Jeff I sparred
Bojan ski of spark okapis but jerome lebanner who's also on the best in
history from france that's why didn't france for one month
that's how you learn so french you you uh you do get hit you get hurt and you
only have one brain and it's not wrong it's not bad it's good to know
everything a little bit of something but you can actually spar introduced without
kidding you can spar everyday base yeah unless
you're injured yeah so that the damage if you do get unfortunate any sport is
distributed around your body where's in boxing it's mostly your brain
you know it's okay it's good to do all this stuff I like it all also grappling
in a self-defense scenario I mean even if it's more than one person the fact
that someone cannot easily put me on the ground is two guys grab me actually like
average guys I could actually probably just win the fight but what punches but
they're not gonna take me down that easy okay
there's someone grasping from the side I can I could throw them or I could escape
and I can leave but that's something you said what a lot of sense if I decide I
don't want to fight and you can't restrain me I can leave yeah
and nowadays of all the lawsuits and stuff like that I mean just making it
fist is ammunition for a lawyer that's that's a sign okay matter of fact you've
hit some of the open palm it's not in many jurisdictions it's not the same if
you restrain someone if you had to and I and I I cause as soon as I say this is a
drunk alcohol technique because if you're at a wedding and your uncle's had
too much drink you every family has one of these uncles usually so like I
understand was saying but you have to stop him he's doing something that's
really let's say not not cool he's hurting someone you could hold him
without hurting him you can't do that with a boxing the boxing is awesome but
you can hurt someone or maybe not uh and I I know people who have hit people and
fights the guy falls hits his head and dies I know people and they're in
trouble and imagine your conscious how do you feel about that way does a little
big it's all signal San Diego does you surf kiss her for kids they knocked some
kid out I heard about this and the guy just knocked no this is exactly that
knocked and punched him in the head fell down hit his head on the curb died and
and the dude you know went to prison net so that's that's whatever manslaughter
or murder so whereas if he was just done a double
leg and choked the dude out which is more kind of more humiliating I think in
a way yeah it's a where am I yeah I'm on the beach somewhere yeah that's that's a
good way to do it so you find a good school I always think the proximity is
important to of course you know get someone close to you if you pick a
school that's an hour away you're not going to go as often unless you're John
some time yeah well I always you know we always picked schools that I've been
there were those who there were two in San Diego County yeah yeah there's a
they're all over the place though there's just goes everywhere you know I
think we've done a pretty good job of being a political
yeah at our gym of just look man guess what we loved you
Jitsu we love to train jiu-jitsu we love to teach jiu-jitsu
we love to roll jiu-jitsu if you fall into any of those categories come and
train come and get it and we don't you know that's just kind of our attitude
here's a quick story chocolate you would appreciate it and I'm not gonna say his
name cuz ya been training here for a few years
nice nice guy actually came to me and said hey Dean um I want you to know I
really like training with you you're my coach but I was I was invited by and
raghava for two months come train with him for free
you know said okay if I like em and it first of all most men wouldn't ask me
that just go do it the fact you asked me I he's a friend of mine I'm like and he
was like he's very surprised he thought I wasn't be mad or something but if he
if he if she went and didn't say anything it would be a little awkward
which has happened to us in the past like something someone does something
weird and it's a little bit they say not polite or not correct but that was would
that be taking ownership of the problem in his mind he actually told me up front
and asked me and I was like yeah right on it's good and I I wasn't lying either
wasn't me being like fake jealous I was a hate he's a friend he's awesome he's a
champion go I said I don't want to lose a student and a friend I want you come
he's like I'm come back for sure and so yeah we're not political at all
yeah I always found that just like its capitalistic system in my opinion it's
like go train where you're gonna get the best training evil camera yes yeah evil
capitalism like oh you you you it's not you train where you get the best
training and now there's a level of loyalty right I mean you don't just bail
on people that you've trained with for a long time and there's a level of loyalty
and that that's not like some level that you're holding a gun to someone's head
it's like man you're been training with someone for a long time you keep
training with them and you have a relationship with him you know and you
don't just throw that out the window because you think someone else is gonna
teach you a different move or something it's not you that's not what I'm talking
about but it is a capitalistic system so you go train where you're gonna get good
training and and that's the way that's the way I feel about it yeah and I think
you're somewhat confident in your ability to save the environment you
created with that you're a part of it's not so much about threat for someone to
go train somewhere else at work yes that's why I'm like cool yeah go
like it's fine because we know what we do here and
other gyms it's like yeah right on let's let's let's change it to is my overall
philosophy of all this died I had a female friend we're a pretty girl and we
were about the same age this is what one year old and me and her first real way
for I knew him – it wasn't real close to him he was very jealous she I'm gonna go
out my god okay and she was a wild at girlfriends and he'd be mad and they
make up being fights they broke up eventually a few years later she
actually dated a guy and he was he was a cop
but he was like 28 so she was 22 of 28 your guys a little more mature than the
guys and try to pull the business with this guy she said I'm gonna go out my
girlfriend she went oh yeah sure have a good time
okay she's trying to play this game with him actually so it was there was an
equal backhand for game what proved a previous relationship and I know inside
information that she was playing and he would lose a game childish game and she
get ready and about to leave and I said hey listen um you know I like you I like
spend time with you but I'm just saying I had my own expectations and you know I
don't really want to be with a girl who goes out all the time with her
girlfriends I mean have a good time go have a good time she's like wait no I
don't wanna go out and she didn't go out so it's funny how he actually let her go
out and she didn't go out I said no I don't want you going out she went out of
course and I'm not saying how to manipulate or
quick that's that's nice I called you there yeah would there be a dichotomy
there a chance that I caught me seeing that word one time today I don't know
what no I say they caught me a little too much but there you go he asked me
and I said by the way I wasn't playing again with him he wasn't planning out I
was actually sincere I said oh man have a good time and do it he is a great
training partner great great camp and he I seen his eyes II was very happy about
the response so yeah I think it's a taking ownership of the situation yeah
it was awesome good for sure right on you anything I think we've been
going to ours man anything else back when you were saying when used to train
with jock oh yeah at Fabia's and you said he was the kind where if you guys
were would roll out of bounds and when you come back in bound
what are you saying he would want to reset know what I mean what I mean is if
I have let's say X person so so so um I had their arm on the ground I have a
Kimora halfway locked up we were all out of bounds and okay let go of it average
person wants to start well you don't have the keyboard oh yeah it's like you
had two arms on my own army and uh I'm like well I don't know I'm like it's
okay but no I had my arm around you had two arms and all my corner cut damn it
now I will argue to have the worst situation most guys wanted cheat kind of
yeah yeah I was wondering what stuck with that good cuz if you're super
competitive in training you'll pull that kind of stuff like oh now we'll pull nah
he won't cheat like that but chuck was a little more stingy selfish greedy yeah I
don't think I ever had that experience on a stick or like if you'd if you'd be
in an inferior position we got to bounce you against the cage or something oh
yeah restart and then you want to start like even-steven I've never had but the
thing is people do that all the time so I was wondering oh maybe chuckles
like the other day and and I was I was like okay yeah I like we got close to
wall oh no he got too close to another people that were rolling and I was in
like a good position I think I was actually a cross-eyed and if I get cross
on you you know and so and so we you know got a little close these other
people and and you know like well their foot hit hit him or something on there's
a we like we get it move and then he likes kneels down okay but okay so
here's the thing let's say someone does that to you what's the rule in your mind
you know you gotta you know you you're actually mentally in their head now are
you allowed to say hey no I had the Nama and save
like ritalin may not be needed yeah that's the equivalent of trying of
trying to be like no you didn't have my arm all the way yeah stuff mental notes
yeah you don't say I don't how many you know
these themes I have like like I just finished whether that's a cool for
Venezuela like I know is crazy themes which are cool and smart talking themes
as yeah yes oh yeah he does like issues when I marry a jurors yeah he'll be a
Venezuelan soccer player I'll talk with an accent but here's a manager like
choco if you want I just get up and you can isn't it's okay it's alright just
let just tell me D let and choco be like I did it other guys before if you want
me that yeah thinks I said it now I'm like I lost my mountain bro I'm like
actually didn't wrong joke at minimum joke right Waterford video me was like
when you acted like you didn't want to Train but you actually fired up because
I had I'd kind of got in the bed of the day before I think was a morning or yeah
was the morning and you're all like yeah I don't know if well and you're like I
gotta go soon and I was like and in my mind I'm thinking okay cool just get a
quick round you know five minute round no big deal and then he was all in the
game so heam the mouth like were you there that day you me mounted Mather
like for 30 minutes and was torturing middle snow angels well that's all the
snow angels all the dangerous was it water torture Chinese water torture with
the drips of sweat and my ear that left to mark that one it's it's really jacked
up though it's really jacked up that I'm a grown man I trained you to on a
regular basis I work out I eat good food mm-hm
and yet you Dean Lister can't get a position on me that I can't
get out of that's not cool man I don't like that no hey you have your
days to buy we you smack talk sometime soon you do the what arresting you
that's me sometimes but that's about retaliation it's retaliatory yeah
there are you have you have three positions you can get on me and and
crush me scroll to cross side and mount yes and I have to like you funny I used
to have get the back like a hold on you now I really can't hold it yeah but but
I only have two so I can only talk smack into position so it's probably more
answer oh yeah so yeah interesting element of your smack talking as well
sometimes it'll transcend the Matt's like you can go home and get like
voicemails oh yeah I just Spanish I send like videos and/or pictures man I used
to like you didn't do this I'm just kind of unique I don't know why I'm weird
today I was feeling good I'm like I'm gonna fuck with chuckles head and I'm
like I can a good position I would go 22.5 and no comment like ninety nine
point three and yeah it gotta be something your head like what's he doing
yeah it's like I completely turn your your volume off I put you on mute my
head but that was what accent is the most annoying for you
um man I don't know I don't know what Russian is this way the Russians pretty
good the Russians it's not them you cannot escape for Arnold aw damn it
whatever it just yeah but yeah he gets used to it
actin too much psyops i – well that's my psyops as I try not to show any reaction
whatsoever that's actually funny Dave Burke was watching good deal yeah good
deal dave was watching Andy and I roll and he afterwards he was like you know
he was cool to watch you roll because first of all like it didn't even
look like anything I've been training right cuz you guys are just getting
crazy and he goes and I saw I saw like emotion or or I saw facial emotions on
you and I was like what do you mean he's like you normally just look like the
same all the time and then when you're training or when I
was training I'll strain with any of yours like some some studio some faces
cry and try to move and all that and so yeah that's why I know that whatever I'm
doing is micro successful when you increase your sense of urgency yeah cuz
you're all normal fees the whole time yeah no no a lot is no face no and then
occasionally you make me scramble a little bit you think about something cuz
you can't that's the thing you know you're getting to a point where I can't
just allow some little some little situation to occur yeah because I can go
to sect of the the event horizon right on on a black hole like oh if I let this
it's done yeah if I let this go it's going it's gonna go and and the better
you get the the more I gotta pay attention to where that event rises to
make sure I don't get myself in a situation where you know we got a
problem on our hands Charl story so I yeah I I smacked talk
to you a little not not the same extreme yeah that's Jocko but last time it was
the last time maybe and I'm like I didn't let you pass but I was kind of
like wax two days ago like oh he's cross-eyed I'm with hey echo here's my
arm and usually he's like there's something wrong like god it's there's a
trap and usually there's a trap I was just talking smack and it goes like oh
okay I'll take that arm and I'm like god damn you called my bullshit because most
guys go there's something there's some reason these give me the arms you know
and you just gonna give me an arm but I knew that you know what because you were
talking smack the whole time Rowland all time yeah it's funny that
for anyone that's listening that thinks that Dean might be this big smack talker
the funny thing is is that you only unlock my rows actually a lot of times
when you teach moves you're like this is a move that you would only do to someone
that's a very good friend of yours or someone that you hate yeah which is
really kind of jacked up if you think about it like oh he doesn't mind
grinding his elbow into my temple yeah three or my ribs yeah yeah because cuz
I'm is broadly so he but he won't do to somebody doesn't really know that well
because that wouldn't be you know that's not cool but if you if he hated me or if
he was friends with me they need then I'm gonna elbows to the ribs so I was
trying to come here me that's awesome yeah but it and really when you really
think about it you're smack talking is never ever like serious oh yeah and it's
never like the greatest show it's not that it's all your Arnold impressions or
your policeman or you know all the way so you say it's all like literally jokes
but the just do you kind of think they're not always that funny when it's
a current to you I love we're not when the tables turn or when the tables turn
you didn't talk to me if you're if you're talking smack and I can get the
tables to turn oh man that's when I have no mercy oh it's it's
got to be shocking to some people would eat either one of us with the two you do
it like in reprisal to me are the the cop you do that but in like revenge like
because it's like all right sir I'm like god damn it you're my you're in the
wrong neighborhood today not cool and he also do thee I'll do it to all start all
like the fire you know like like oh that's guy here I'll do like a bad
Brazilian accent and when you gotta five you're like oh oh you do it back to me
I'm like god dammit I don't like you're right I don't like how if he doesn't
like I want to reverse where I was you weren't on right now and it's
horrible it was our year – yeah right on man well like I said we've been
going for a little over two hours so Dean anything else not just ate my
bro is here and I would have victory of name you know like Jocko said I mean
there's been some rough times and that's some some some unique things that I've
been through and you know that's how you know you have real pros real team stick
by my side and it'll help me actually you know if I can help them as well I
know they know that you know my dad he actually you know did not bring him easy
not saying he was a real good dad but he you know I know it's not popular to say
this nowadays but it may be tough I mean you know uh hey you got a fight did you
buy art did you fight hard not a poor you oh you know we're gonna we're gonna
make a complaint you know I'm not making some steam now saying my dad was awesome
old marine hey didn't you say that if you want to see what we mean
someone said I'd say there's a really good percentage that if I didn't join
the SEAL Teams I would have gone in the Marine Corps yeah that's a that's a
pretty good yeah pretty good assessment yes I'm with my dad was that kind of
like how you raised the work like you know you're gonna do this and yeah you
don't force the earth but you kind of encourage them to do certain things and
that's how my dad was that's another little torture that you do it though
with my son with them I don't know why I go on I don't know why I just go um hey
Thor what's your favorite food and it'll go like Oh stay coffee no I'll throw
down a little break it's piggies in a blanket it'll be like no okay no idea it's just
some I thought of I don't have no idea why just hey hey like I just think of
things you know like the fourth time he's like hey you said it correctly and
so you earned the privilege of letting me like cold yeah old brothers guy do that you know
this is what it is that's how it is man that's how it is
one day the pecking order will be reversed oh yeah always taught me no I
know well I saw you you you went to take him
down whatever it was the first time he actually defended crime McCarthy's
defending Masseria I went to double bacon like to do actually yeah turn it
up the huge awesome man well uh echo it looks like I think
everyone's gonna be training jiu-jitsu now you Jesus everyone is gonna get on
that path how can we get on that path to stay on that path you know yeah whatever
something like that yeah so jiu-jitsu if you do get we recommend we recommend
fuller he knows fully okay so he's absolutely you know or Jinky get orgy
hundred-percent no you don't even have to drop other
stores that don't rip at all or something like that uh I don't know that
they ripped I've never seen witness one rip ever I've never witnessed one even
come close to ripping or even having the sound of ripping sounds oh by the way
that's an investment because Chaka humming Keys have we gone through like a
lot of keys yeah so I've ripped someone's ghee in a match by the light
of Jesus hey anyway get orogeny that's the maid
all made in America from the thread from the cotton all the way to the actual
ghee all made in America assembled in America and also if you're gonna train
noogie yeah which we also recommend right yeah yeah fully you can get a a
rash guard which is very good for change it's worth because it's compression and
it doesn't get caught up toes failures thank you so you can get that yeah it's
true the the rash guards and they are also made in yeah so where we go is
where you go is online origin Mein Kampf it's in Maine um
and Yankee sweatshirts you know lifestyle stuff peril real cool stuff in
there style statement I said it is life style bread you get to trance and the
Matt's once you find the way broadly you see it in all things I don't think I see
that I don't think I see the way in jog I'm just saying
it's gonna be your lifestyle is what I'm saying you see what I'm saying demos
when hunting oh yeah there you go boom also supplements okay chocolate
supplements good news chocolate supplement oh yeah you had surgery on
your shoulder same day I had surgery by the way actually thanks for he gave me
okay awesome some gear like you what joint corporation yes yes so that's
gonna help you see my like – wave remember Kay I did my other side to my
buddies yeah this one's human way faster igniting day way crazy faster anyway
joint more fur so supplements Jocko has thankfully joint warefare glucosamine
chondroitin you know grappling we always kind of knew about that curcumin and
then also Jocko super krill oil which is good for your joints this case other
joints lubrication omega-3s whatnot other good benefits for that too
importance and you can get disciplined yeah not just regular discipline but a
supplement called discipline which is good for the pre-mission situation Dave
Burke good deal good deal Dave he's on the discipline yeah a lot so here's the
thing about discipline got sick okay so I'm like alright that's not everyday
deal for me discipline oh so I'm like you know cool I'm down so I'm like
alright so let me do the three scoops oh you died here I heard I heard some good
things about the three scoops so I did the three scoops and and here's the
thing I wasn't like tired or nothing like that I wasn't like oh I need this
specifically let me just do the three scoops good for your user sorry get on
the program a little bit of this got to do it so I get him three scoops boom I
go and here's one thing that like I I wasn't necessarily trying to pay
attention to him I remember and my sharp I wasn't trying to really paying
attention to that I was just gonna take it and be like okay what happens this is
what I noticed what stuck out to me my patients like you know what this is an
increase in increase in like so like that's you you might think that your
patients would go down cuz you're all yeah but you don't get that but it's not
cat it's I mean it's slightly caffeinated minor dose of caffeine but
it's not know like maybe maybe caffeine might make you like that maybe
but um because it's not that I don't I don't know what the mechanism is that
made me patient but I really in how like through the day you'll get you know
it'll get tested things won't go your way or whatever I felt like oh man it's
all good like meh so there's something in there that's giving you emotional
discipline yeah like it's like it's like making my mind like solve problems
rather than like be all you know you have little micro reaction the inside
internally I mean I'm not what it felt like I could manage that like really
good it was like really easy to manage that that's what it felt like on the
three scoops that's my three scoops that's what happened boom anyway this
this one Mulk oh I'm ashamed is that Viking or somebody it's actually a word
that I literally created to make something and I was like hey man this
has to taste really good and it has to have a great profile nutritionally and
when we fuck when I finally got the sample where I wanted it and people are
like oh that's so good they sent me my tall it's so good and I'm thinking well
it's not even a protein drink it's something else
it's milk so it's just a word but it happens to have 22 grams of protein in
one skirts group and tastes like like a fresh probiotics or something to has
probiotics and peanut butter chocolate is now also available it's a big hit in
my household my mind – it's like it's fine that's all I had to eat today by
the way and I had Mulk a triple milkshake Mulk put some heavy
cream in there a little bit and then oh I know I had a worry bar – but that's
all I had – oh yeah it's like it's like a a protein supplement and a dessert so
if you're like hey I'm lifting I'm rolling I'm working out hard you eat
dinner you can have a dessert boom that's a protein supplement yeah
the double knot okay I live the mint is delicious but
let's face it I've been drinking nothing but mint Molk mm-hmm for whatever how
long ever long it's been released for so now all of a sudden I've got a little
option yeah the new yeah that's new but it's
also when you open here's what's here I'll tell you what when you open up
either one of those two and you smell them you know you know you know you're
you know you know things are about to get real good yeah real good
next time we're working vanilla we're working yeah I have vanilla you like
vanilla fur oh yeah no kidding I yeah I made the vanilla I gave to my sons too
by the way all right I think he thought it was like her for real milk like a
dessert and he was like oh he's all like crying for it have a video I sent it to
Pete for it's funny or either way and that was vanilla it's not just gonna be
vanilla though gotta be vanilla something it's vanilla gorilla he was
like are you serious and I was like yeah I mean of course he goes what do you
mean I said put a white gorilla on there the vanilla gorilla it's coming I would
expect so much from Joe yeah makes sense yeah so we took a picture of you Dean
input but you want make sense hey the immersion camp by the way that
Dean will be at and I would say come but if you didn't already sign up you're not
gonna be there because it sold out no kidding yeah hold on official sold out
we doing it next year I'll try and get you know come next year we'll try to
expand it a little bit but it sold out sorry next time yeah those are fun and
I'm most talked about that with people very often go anyway it's good also good
way to support and support yourself and represent boom three things boom boom
boom jocke with a store called Jacko's store you go to Jocko store.com make
fries anyway this is where you can get the shirts hoodies more rash guards more
Jocko representative you know kind of a little bit more direct message on that
one but some good stuff if you want to represent yeah go there chuckles startup
cost rockers hats yeah that's good whatever flex fit hats
flex fit the nouveau snapback Evo chic that's what flex flex fitter Nouveau
sure yeah hoodies legit hoodies and lightwei oh these yeah the lightweight
hoodies here's the thing brain you made me like stutter step on the lightweight
hoodie so like I have them and I'm but it they're not like in the pipe yeah
okay but we're good keep them out of the planet I want that no they're going on
the plane oh there's people that there is people there are people a lot of
support hello everyone in Hawaii sir yeah everyone in a bunch of people in
Florida sure yeah Texas sometimes but yeah that's a good way to support and
represent like I said Rocco store.com also good way to support is to subscribe
to the podcast if you haven't already seems obvious I know but on iTunes and
stitcher or drill obviously Google Play this 437 which makes the exactly right
money more seems obvious cuz I say all the time and that's just kind of how
with podcasts you subscribe to the podcast you think that you when you say
things a certain way and then you just think that's the best way to say it
you're just gonna keep saying it kind of thing even though it kind of is broke
because you look at me like it's broke every single time they do it when you're
signing up for podcast don't forget that there's also the war your kid podcast
yeah and you can subscribe to that one too you can play it for kids there's
some stories on there there's some Q&A for uncle Jake which you know it's good
yeah I like the story so Kate those stories I have to shorten it sometimes
but all those stories I tell my daughter before you know your bedtime stories you
know now you have a story now yeah you know how like right do you make yourself
the first person character or do you save this and Uncle Jake no I mean I
actually don't even say Uncle Jake so how do I make us different oh yeah yeah
just think she's buying that yes she's like you rip this off from jock
like that come on where are you at no no no no she knows and you think
they're losing we're running a race okay no I don't say me no I don't think me I
say look there is this girl Yomi yeah kind of like a royalty Lake
scenario but did you say someone else is running the race you say it's a story
about somebody yeah and he was the important thing and hasn't she heard the
warrior kid podcast no oh you know you evil nah you hold down on earn you're
taking my stories and now you're making of your own
and one day she stole the story from you daddy what's bad as I didn't realize
those doing that but technically that is what happened what happened what
happened it's cold-blooded but either way if they don't hear those stories on
the podcast for whatever reasons your whole mouth or whatever edit or
what-have-you you have stories to tell and you know
they're gonna come with that lesson that's what I think is yet another
element of value immense value we thought we threw some of those stories
on the on the YouTube channel yes the jockle podcast YouTube channel and
there's a warrior kid podcast or a youtube channel so go to youtube
subscribe to that if you want to see echoes legit videos which apparently he
has some in the hopper that he's gonna be releasing so we're looking forward to
that as well which should be good yeah get him out there I think so also on it
okay on it comm flash chuckle this is where you can get your kettle bells I
got some heat for calling them artistic kettle bell actually wasn't told them
that for seven it wasn't he it was like an entry Orion whispering what's an
artist like primal bells the ones that have like faces on them just came yes
did you do count I used to yeah oh there's one
yeah so you get the the werewolf one is way better you know even looks better
anyway they're cool and and you get it from on it so there's that I got rings
and there's a bunch of the work cool work out those are awesome yeah but if
they look awesome that's even more awesome well I saw the regular ones too
by the way but that's a lot of information to an website but a dog on
cloth psychological war a psychological warfare and we're working on the second
album but that's on iTunes if you want to hear me talking about
when to get after instead of being a little baby and succumbing to your own
pathetic horrible laziness yeah cool yeah there's that yeah oh there's white
tea yeah Chuck white tea in Cannes – by the way if you left me in a can or if
you just like the whole idea of holding you know like you do with energy drinks
or whatever JP told me today he's at Cod can you
just pay me and Jocko white TV cuz he's an epsilon front and I'm like brother we
can make it happen he's ordering JA Kuwaiti which is
awesome like I said it's awesome because as I said last time
JP used to get on those energy yeah yeah and now he's just getting on a little
darker whitey Dean's been hammering the job white t and you're also an energy
drink guy those were the days were wasn't regulated you know hey do you
drink tea like in normal like everyday life or you know drinker yeah that's
weird right me too but I pound nice upon these old houses so I start I stop using
like the redbull type stuff that's not really yeah and when this is like a
transition yeah I had I had like an energy type drink the other day and
because I was driving and I needed a little energy and it was like one of
those ones and it said you know like all the little buzz words on it healthy
natural blah blah blah so I drink this thing and all of a sudden thirty minutes
later I feel like I'm gonna start stabbing like the road with a battle axe
and attacking people what it had 200 milligrams of caffeine 200 milligrams of
caffeine yeah that's gonna get you what are you doing don't give me all that are
you psycho yeah yeah you're right it's their fault yeah no yeah you're right
you're with all their faults I know good how's this so my wife she's on the
path my wife big time actually now just like boom on the path are good so I love
missing that podcast bra I looked on her phone and it has the podcast it's not
that she should like her own that's their own kind thing on my comment so
I'm like okay the other day okay this is Justin this was me this may be to start
maybe three four weeks ago right in the game so the other day I hear I'm like in
the side not in the next room but kind of like to the side I'm not in her
visual lightning so hurt you know people don't know I'm not saying my wife talks
to herself I'm not saying that but you know you say something said oh if you
made a mistake just kind of under your breath can stuff she's like no she she
pops another one of this stuff to herself not to me she was like on home
like popping him and yet she's she's pounding this this stuff so it's
interesting I asked here's the thing she is kind of a tea drinker she likes
like this he is okay if it was a blind double-blind test and you just you just
came into a room and you'd never drank this before and and you picked up a cup
somebody put it in your hand and put in your mouth would you say it was tea I
would but I'm not like a hey that's that's tea you know I'm not teaching her
the fire because I know it looks like tea if you drink tea but if it was just
if you were just like you and in a store and grabbed a can you open you be like
ah this is interesting you wouldn't maybe necessarily know it
was tea maybe yeah well don't say that in England cold teas like that's really
weird yeah it's evil over there yeah I think it's yeah oh it's bad okay
no they just don't drink it they drink their tea warm and we're hot and with
milk in it do you put milk in that don't know right it seems like like a psycho
thing to do with this one don't do that unless it's good hey I got some books
where the warrior kid books for your kid there's one of them it's called away the
warrior kid then the second one in that series is called Mark's mission got the
discipline equals freedom Field Manual if you need to know how to get after it
that's where you find out how to get after it the audio version that
you get it on iTunes as an mp3 or Amazon music or Google Play or whatever also
got extreme ownership that's about combat leadership written by by me and
my brother lave babban and on September 25th the dichotomy of leadership comes
out the dichotomy of leadership it's a follow-up
Lafe and I wrote it follow-up to extreme ownership dives in and gets granular on
how to balance the opposing forces of leadership so that you and your team can
win dichotomy you like my word yeah waiting for you to say action I said it
once I only said it wants this podcast which is weird because I should have
said it a bunch because in jujitsu you've got to be aggressive but there's
a dichotomy because you can't be doing yeah you've got to be offensive but at
the same time you've got also there's a dichotomy cuz you got to be defensive
right you've got a train with the guy but there's a dichotomy cuz you've also
got a train without thank you right yeah Iain Oogie Bo the very important yeah so
you've got to do it uh leadership consulting company national in front we
solve problems through leadership whatever problem you have at your
company at your team it's a leadership problem I'm telling you that right now
it's a leadership problem on some level it's a leadership problem if you want
help with that you got me Lafe Babb and JP Janelle Dave Burke Flynn Cochran and
now Mike Sorelli as well and that's what we do we come work with your company and
get those leadership problems solved which will solve or whatever inherent
problems are within your team your company your business muster 0:06 in San
Francisco California October 17th and 18th all the other ones have sold out
this one is apparently on track to sell out even faster than all the other ones
so if you want to come to that go to extreme ownership calm get registered
we'll see you up there leadership seminar two days of granular
practical leadership it's not it's not a motivation of it
you can do this and I'm not saying you won't be motivated cuz I get motivated
but we're not there going like how can we motivate these people that's not even
though that's net that that words not even said at any point yeah at all
neither is you can do it yeah you ever say that never know but have the
strength today you're a strong person you believe in yourself you are great
that's not what it's after no that is not what is happening we talk about
leadership and leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield it's
the most important thing in your business and it's the most important
thing in your life so if you want to come and learn some pragmatic leadership
skills then come to the muster also for current law enforcement military Border
Patrol firefighters paramedics first responders all you out there in uniform
we got roll call number zero zero one it's our first roll call we're having a
roll call because the musters two days it's pricey and we wanted to offer
something to military law enforcement to the folks out there in uniform to come
and get a condensed version focused on the dynamic leadership situations that
you all face that's September 21st in Dallas Texas you also register for that
at extreme ownership comm and also we now have EF overwatch a chillon front
overwatch EF overwatch comm okay so this is it we've been working with companies
for all these years all these years we've been working with all these
various different companies and all these companies we work with them and
help their leadership well they want to hire leaders they want to bring leaders
on board we were also in the military all of us additional on front were in
the military and we have connections with a lot of people that were in the
military that that want to go work at jobs with great companies so in order to
connect those two groups people that want jobs and people that need leaders
in their business go to EF overwatch comm to get in the game and you can
either register as someone that's looking for a job it's focused on
Special Ops folks and combat aviation those types of what we're looking at
right now we're gonna broaden that out and and put together another company in
the very near for another arm of this company and but that's where we're
starting because that's that the basically the reason we're starting
there's because that's the element that we have connections with and so as we
expand and we're working this right now to get the lines of communication open
in the other branches of the military so that we can bring on board you know
other folks but again this is we started with the groups that we know so if
you're in those groups go register if you're getting ready to retire if you're
looking at getting out and you don't know what you're going to do next we
need leaders America needs leaders these businesses need experienced leaders that
understand the principles we talked about the principles that are in extreme
ownership the things that you learned in combat the things you learned leading
troops on the battlefield your skills are needed so hit us up EF overwatch
comm get registered get in the game and we'll get you get your next mission talk
about having your next mission all the time we will get your next mission we
got a bunch of companies that are they need you and if you want to spend some
time with us virtually until we roll in til we're rolling at the muster all
rollin in Texas or rolling in at the immersion camp until then we're all up
on the interwebs Dean Dean Lister Dean is at on Instagram Dean is at Dean
Lister BJJ that's right on Twitter you might not even remember this on Twitter
your Dean underscore Lister I looked up to see if you had Twitter you had a post
your last post was in 2010 oh okay did Twitter exist in 2010 I'm not even
kidding I thought Twitter was like three years
old no that's has it been around that long when was it invented obviously
before 2010 makes sense yeah I knew that yeah well because you just kind of said
you did you know all good yeah one three years
ago actually and Facebook you do you do Facebook yeah more yeah you do Instagram
yeah Instagram or now Facebook this this was like a phantom you know they make
the audit generate one for you if you finally you'll see or whatever if you
have a certain matter friends that personal one
it's me and my mom my sister in the cage and then I met there was another one I
don't know who it is me remember you made me know you to make
me but you asked me to say you want one like 10 years ago
yeah but the there's another one Oh another one top of that someone it's
actually post things about me but what's the real one
it's a just teen mr.

Glennister yeah it's just that's me in a cage with my my
mom my sister yeah yeah I don't and that's where you can find us and of
course echo is that echo Charles in all mediums yes I am at Jocko Willy echo you
got anything else no pretty cool to hang with Dean in this capacity ever
literally every time I come here pretty much yeah literally pretty much I see we
don't want to know by the way you're my first actually your class was my third
jiu-jitsu class really oh yeah sure loser yeah to that in that half yeah
yeah you were strong back then to if you ever heard him tell that so like he
thought he could take you kinda yeah yeah okay so the mean cake mess story is
different so it was like when I fear the first time I ever rolled with you you
were like yeah come roll like you know yeah you know like how this is literally
what I thought how embarrassing is it gonna be and how awkward isn't gonna be
if like I get Dean today like that's all what I was thinking now literally not
just it wasn't like this fantasy I was literally worried about the awkwardness
so that's how real it was to me I didn't I'm not saying I was gonna get you but
to me there was a chance but I was like yeah it's okay you know he'll he'll
respect that if that happens I mean it will put in my kind of thing right when
you you know how you're saying right when you locked up and this is uh this
was maybe like who doesn't oh we yeah Oh – yeah so this may be like a weaker to
introduce you to right even then right when we locked up
I knew okay that there's zero chance of me beating Dean right yeah
that's maybe if Dave Burke came on and we were talking about Top Gun and how
like he set it up really nicely and he's like only if he had a guy that was
really good boy when this whole thing music then his chance of beating you
know me as a Top Gun instructor would be zero
yeah it's zero percent there's no and that's kind of the situation is there's
literally I'm saying there's actually no possible way no possible way that you
could have submitted Dean Lister no possible and I knew that like literally
right when we locked up and I was like okay and it was um and even at that
point even before this was like when you were in Pride this was like right after
you won or maybe right before no no it's right before you 180 CC or right after I
don't know I remember one day you came in and everyone cheered for you because
it's the first thing yeah it was like your baby was gonna be shot Machado in
this super frighten maybe yes actually Machado in the super fight so we had
compete Oh who's an awesome guy came up to help train you and so we were all
training you and we were all training with you and and when we got to the
fight this is a list of the difference in attitudes right so he got to the
match I won't call the fights it's not a fight it's a match yeah and you were
gonna get John Jacques Machado who's a you know legendary legendary jiu-jitsu
player and when you got to like a dominant position and you were up by
like like oh hey you're up by like three or four I was like go for the Fritos
like whoa hold right there hold you got this you know like that type of thing
strategical Brazilians yeah thick weather and I'm going it was funny right
before the match because we don't train for like three weeks you know and we
don't write format she goes hey Dean I want to talk to you you said in English
– he went just you know I came down here to help you and if you don't win today
I've let you down and I feel like I'm a like whatever I was like he's like you
so if you lose I lose also and you know I really hope you win and I'm like
damn the depression you know I'm not I don't want to you don't sighing it
worked yeah but yeah but yeah those uh yeah
those it does get its keyboards cuz my play that's cool to hang with you in
this capacity um you know slightly different but it's more simple than
lemon laughs need any closing thoughts I'll just you mentioned the first
responders I think for them most important get on the mat if you any kind
of force party you deal with erratic people I think it's really good it does
take some some measure to put yourself in the situation where you are you will
be weaker than people to get stronger but I think it's very important I think
that's I see more seals and I'm at that I do cops
I think cops need more than a seal you know so I hope to see more of this first
responders in the mat learning this kind of stuff it's it's really valuable
definitely I look forward to the immersion camp know the fourth imagine
before awesome man well obviously thanks for coming on Dean I know we've been
putting this off for a while and I'm sure you'll be back on again and we'll
talk more stories and thanks to everyone else out there for listening and and
especially those of you that were the uniform so yeah you know military police
firefighters Border Patrol paramedics other first responders we know that all
of you make sacrifices every day to protect us and we absolutely thank you
for that and like Dean I also hope that all of you in all those jobs find some
time to train some jiu-jitsu because it'll make you better at your job it'll
make you better at life and if you can't find you Jitsu go find some boxing or
some judo or some wrestling or some muy Thai or some way to train so that you
can fight when the time comes and and really that goes to everyone that is
listening to this if you can get out there and fight
you have to fight fight literally and fight metaphorically in your everyday
life fight against the enemy fight against the criminals fight against fire
and catastrophe fight against your training partners fight against your
weakness fight against sloth fight against laziness and stagnation and
fight to stay on the path and live in accordance with the way by getting out
there and getting after it until next time this is Dean and echo and Jocko out

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