– All right, we're here one
more Andre Galvao Podcast. This is gonna be our number five, and I am just here with my friend, Will The Bill. – [Andre] What's up, Will The Bill? – What's up? – Hey, don't be shy Will
The Bill (laughing). – I'm here, I'm ready, let's talk, man. – We gonna talk Will, he started training
with me in 2011, right? Right before I leave to ADCC 2011. – Yup, right before you went to ADCC, and then you went to that one was in- – 2011.
– 2011. – ADCC.
– Yeah. Then you went won double
gold, and I was like, "Man, this is the place,
I gotta sign up here. This is where I wanna train." – What about if I go there
and lose, you desert- – I was gonna go
somewhere else.
(laughing) – Oh my God. Yes, but, Will actually, man, we made a deal. I sold my car to you, remember? – That's right, yes. – [Andre] You still have the car or no? – No, I sold it. – [Andre] Oh, you sold it? – I sold it, it was a great car, though. – Who's the third owner? Who's the guy? – CarMax, – [Andre] Oh, CarMax. (laughs) – CarMax is the new owner. They don't know the value in that, that is Andre Galvao's car. – If you go to CarMax right now, and buy a KIA, 2000 what? – [Will] 2013. – 2013 man, it was mine (laughing). – But now-
– It was a black one. – Now I want your next car. – [Andre] My next one
right now, after this? – No, the one you have now. – I have a Cadillac. – You have an Escalade, right?
– Yeah, yeah, Escalade. – I'm waiting for that, I'm waiting for the hand me down. – Yeah, I told you, I
told you after that car, your car is upgrade many, many times. – Every three years I'll
buy your car from you. – All right, all right, all right.
So Will, yes man, you came here in 2011
and in this podcast I, in this podcast, I do interviews
with different people. Of course like I said, I always start with my students. And you're not training
right now here at Atos HQ, but you trained here for how long? Like five, six years? – No, I trained until 2017. Yeah, so six years.
– Six years. Yeah, six years of training with us, yes. But you saw pretty much
the beginning of Atos like- – [Will] The evolution of Atos. – The evolution, yeah evolution of Atos, the evolution of Andre Galvao, as a professor, as an athlete.
I would to see from your side, what did you see at Atos? I remember we started in
a small place, of course. Now we have a 7,000 square feet facility. We grew a lot, and I just wanna remind, even myself, sometimes it's hard for me to remind, to put those crazy moments that I had, sometimes I forget things, right? But of course I know where I came from. I know where i came from, I know where we came from. And just tell a little bit, what did you see back in the day and now, what do you see now? – Man, back in the day it was crazy. So back in the day there was, I would say much less
organization than there is now. There was one class, it was all belts. It was white through black
belts, I remember the first- – [Andre] Kids together. – Kids, everybody, yeah. We had young kids and that was it.
You just, you like to tell
the story that when I, I was a blue belt when I came to Atos, and I wasn't very good. – Yeah you were suck. (both laughing) – I wasn't very good. I knew close guard, and half guard, right? And then when I got there, the first technique I
learned was the berimbolo. Bruno Frazatto taught it. – Oh really, yeah.
– And I was like what the- – Yeah, yeah we had those guys here, yeah. – What the heck is this? And so it was kinda just like, getting thrown into the lion's den, just learning trial by
fire, getting out there.
And that has its value. Learning with people who
are way better than you, and just having to survive. But then you got more organized. You started, you had more of a curriculum, you started a white belt class, there was a competition class. And that just kind of like average- – [Andre] Start, separating things, yeah. – And every time you won, I remember every time
you won a major event, we would knock down a wall at the gym. We would expand the gym. There was a new area of
the gym that would open up. So you always reinvested. Every time you had a, you got
to a milestone in your career, you put that money back into the gym. And one thing that I
always tell everybody, that I think is amazing, is that you were on the mats all the time.
– I still do it. – You're still there. And I remember one time you were in China, and then you had a flight back, you landed, what how long was that trip? It's like 15, 20 hours, right? – [Andre] Minimum, yeah. – You were on the mat the
next day at the 9:00 AM class. And then you went and you
taught the 6:00 PM class. So like, that's one thing
that I always tell everybody, I don't know how you do it man? Training, competing with the
toughest guys in the world, and then always there for your students.
– It's crazy, yeah man like I, sometimes I stop and start thinking, how I get all this energy to… Because I don't sleep a lot. I'm not that type of person
that needs like eight hours, nine hours of sleep. I can sleep five hours and I feel amazing. – Really?
– Yeah. It doesn't matter like how much I train, it doesn't matter. I feel great. I just go and grind.
– You just got lucky man. You got lucky.
– Yeah I think like, Yeah, I have like… Some people they need a lot of sleep. Some other people, they don't need much, and I feel like I don't
need that much of sleep.
– Yeah, but what about all the stress you're putting on your body, from training and lifting and traveling? – I don't feel like stress because I- – [Will] That's crazy! – Because I feel that I chose to do that. Just for the fact that I chose to do that, it's no longer stress. I know I need to train
really hard, of course, there was times that I over-trained. I was over-trained and I
couldn't like rest well, let's say. I'm not saying like, sleep well, but rest well, or feeling like hungry. But I always had in my mind, that I chose all of this. And this gives me a relief, because if you choose to do something, of course it requires sacrifice, in everything you're doing in life, if you wanna grow, if you wanna be better, it requires a lot of sacrifice.
But knowing that I was
choosing to do that, it was an option. I started feeling blessed,
I always feel blessed. I feel like, man, this is what I can do, this is my choices. I wanna lift, I wanna sleep, I wanna train, I wanna learn, I wanna do drills, I
wanna teach, I wanna… I feel that I'm very, very blessed, and I never complain about
anything to be honest, I don't like to complain. – It's almost like, it's the difference between
someone going into a job, like a corporate job
that they have to do it. They may not love it, but they have to do it
because they need money. You're saying you chose this path. So this was like something you get to do, because you enjoy it. – Imagine you choose to be an athlete, or you chose to be a fighter or whatever you wanna do in life.
You chose to be like a, you chose your college or
your university, whatever, you're a doctor. And then you go to the office and you're just like, "Oh dang, I gotta go work." But you chose that like
for four or five years, six years you study that, and you chose to be that. And then when you go to work,
you're just complaining. You're just like, oh. I think everyone needs to work. We have our work and we have our job.
Our job is just like what
do we do to make money. But our work is the purpose of life. I learned that. And when both are combined,
man you go beyond, like some people they, their job is being a doctor, being maybe a doctor like a physician. That's their job they chose. But their work is probably, make good things for
people, their purpose, like discover something, or make people feel better. And a lot of people understand that, but the majority, I don't
think they understand that. And they kinda like lost, they don't understand
their purpose of life. So when I know my purpose
of life is teaching, is helping people, is being on the mat, is transmitting my knowledge, the things that I pass in life and also on the mat to my
students, I feel amazing.
It doesn't matter, if I got a plane for like 20 hours, and I arrive, I feel like, oh, I gotta be there to, there's some people waiting for me. Because if I just stay home, and wait for me to rest, to be okay, to beat the jet lag in
order to go back to the gym, I feel like I'm just thinking about me. I'm not thinking about
people who are there. So I always had that like,
I really liked what I do. I love what I do and I'm passionate-
– Well, I think when you like what you do, it makes life so much more enjoyable. It makes your job easier, because it's not actually like a job. It's like you're doing what you love. And that's why I credit
jujitsu for changing, I was on a trajectory to go into finance, and have this corporate job, right? And I credit jujitsu, with kind of opening my
mind to other possibilities.
And now my job is jujitsu. – [Andre] Crazy, huh? – Yeah, I started in- – Could you imagine that? – No, never.
– Right? – Never in my life. And it's all because of jujitsu. – Yeah, and it's crazy
because I started jujitsu, when jujitsu, let's say
back in the day, 1990s, 1990, middle 1990s like 1995, 1994, 1996. So right after the first UFC, right? So I started training jujitsu. – Was it because of the UFC? – Yeah, I watched Royce Gracie, and man a lot of people started like, back in the nineties, a
lot of people started, because they saw that. It was a big boom in martial arts. And I always play soccer and all that, and then I saw a guy, Royce Gracie, it's not a common name in Brazil, Royce. And I say, who's this guy? I thought he was from somewhere else. And then they announce him as, "From Rio de Janeiro, Brazil." I'm like, this guy is from
Brazil, Rio de Janeiro, Gracie? What the heck is that? It's not a common name.
– [Will] Oh really? – And then I start like understanding, and I started learning and
then I was like, "Oh wow!" And then I quit soccer and everything. I started training jujitsu. And then man, it was a life change, and back in the day, okay, you have the UFC, like maybe you could think like, "Oh, I will train
jujitsu to maybe one day, do like what Royce Gracie did." Imagine, right? Like go and be really good, and challenge some guys in the cage, and then make like $60,000. I think that's what he made, maybe like $40,000, something like that. It was like a 50, not even a hundred
thousand dollars, I think. And that was the hope in jujitsu. No media, no, nothing. No gi brands. There was like on gi brand that was called like Krugans, Krugans. And then after that came Atama. But yeah, shout out to those brands, I know they work really hard for. to make-
– The pioneers? – Yeah, the pioneers, right? And man, I remember
there was no jujitsu gis, and none of those things. No internet, no YouTube, no Instagram.
Imagine starting jujitsu that time? Nowadays people, they have the option, to start jujitsu and they can make a plan. Like, oh, you know what, I will start jujitsu, and I start advertising myself
like that on social media. Even a blue belt, he can
cause some buzz online. And then he can start to make some money, and get a sponsor right away. People from all over the
world can see what he's doing. But back in the day you're
locked in their gym, just training and you go to, the way for you to show
your work, was competing. That's why when I start training, I start competing like every month, every single month, every
single weekend actually. I used to compete like four
or five tournaments a week. And sometimes I fought on
Saturday in one tournament, traveled, and Sunday I
was in another tournament.
It was crazy. And then Monday I was already at the gym. And I think every time
that I stop and think, I think that I was trained, to
do what I'm doing right now. All the energy that I have, I already trained that so much. I was all day at the
gym, all day training. And then on Friday was
the day that I take off, to go compete.
And then Saturday I was competing, and Saturday for me was a
training with different people. And at the end of this
training, I would make a, I would win a medal, a gold medal, or maybe a double gold, because I always liked
to compete open class. It's like, was a white belt or blue belt? – What school were you at? – Careca Jiu Jitsu, like instructor, Professor Luiz Carlos Dagmar. – [Will] Is he in Rio?
– Master Careca. No he's from Rio, but then he moved to Sao Paulo, and then he started teaching
us in Sao Jose dos Campos.
In my neighborhood, the same
neighborhood that I was living, that was the gym. And lots of my friends were doing jujitsu, all my friends and even my oldest brother. And my oldest brother, Carlos Caicara. He's in (indistinct) camp right now. He started inviting me to train. And I had like friends
that trained judo as well. Claudio Calasans, everyone. So we had like a, we
have a group of friends.
You know, those like, if you watch those movies back in the day, people riding bike and all that, playing soccer on the street. That was my childhood. And I have a group
probably off like 20 guys, that live like in that neighborhood, that would play with each other, and just have fun. Play soccer and all of that, hide and seek, and all this things, we're nine, eight years old. And those guys, they
start training jujitsu. That group of teenagers
start training jujitsu.
I was like the youngest, because my brother was
four years older than me. So I was the youngest. And then I always was in the
group, but I was the youngest. My brother was like, let's
say 14 years old, I was 10. They're all like training jujitsu, I was just like, oh, I don't know. They were way bigger than me. And then, yeah. So when I started
training, I fell in love. And then I started like practicing, and what I'm saying is, when I go travel all over and then come back, and teach next day or come back same day and teach, or sometimes I travel to a seminar, I arrive and then teach in the same day, I go back in the same day. I do this a lot. I go teach in Miami, for example, I get a red-eye flight, arrive in Miami in the morning, teach a seminar in the morning, by 3:00 PM I get on my
flight back to San Diego, and arrive same day in San Diego.
And people say, why do you do that? And say, man, I'm going there to work. I know it's nice to go
visit places and stuff, but I'm going there to
work, to do my best. Three hours of my very best. And then after that, I wanna
hang out with my family. Otherwise I'll have no time for my family. So, and then like back in
the day I was doing that. I was all day training, training a lot, resting on Friday, and then sometimes fighting on Saturday, rest on Friday, fighting on Saturday, and then fighting on Sunday. And then go back to gym, Monday was training again. And a lot of those trips were like by bus. By bus, you just, I buy a ticket. – [Will] Really?
– Yeah, bus, no plane. Nowadays, oh I'm gonna fight an open. Plane. They go by plane. But back in the day like a big bus,, like four or five hours driving. I arrive in the same day. Sometimes, I used to go to the
tournament in a red-eye trip.
I take a bus like 10:00 PM, and then arrive in Rio by 5:00, 6:00 AM. And then get off the bus, take a cab driver, go
straight to the tournament, and get to the tournament, just to warm up a little bit, like three hours chilling
until my weight division start, and then go and fight and
win and then go back home. – So do you think that the
fighters today are spoiled? Because they just have so many options, it's a little bit easier for them? – Like I think they
should know the history. By knowing the history
they would appreciate more, every single black belt that they see. You know what I mean? Sometimes I feel like-
– What they had to go through. – Yeah, sometimes I feel like some kids, they have a lot of attitude. And let's say, if they make
a little name on their, like purple belt or
blue belt or brown belt, they think like, ah, you know? And they look at you
like, oh, you're just old.
They look at you, ah you're an old guy, I can kick her butt, you know what I mean? Like some guys are cocky like that. But I think if they know the history, what we did, we black belts, like three, fourth degree black
belts, did back in the day to be able to take jujitsu to this level, they would appreciate more. Because they don't see, there's no documentary let's say, because back in the day was all tapes, all VHS, hard access. – You know, who's got all those tapes? Riccardo Ammendolia, shout out Ricardo.
If you wanna look, at jujitsu history?
– I will bring him here one day, yeah. – Oh, he'd be a great interview. – Yeah, he has a lot of stuff, because he started learning
jujitsu in the nineties, I think, in the nineties. So he knows the, actually the guy who, I think the guy who
invented all this media, and all this success in
jujitsu is Oswaldo Paqueta. He was a guy that has a little camera, and he goes to every single tournament, and record all fights man.
– [Will] Smart. – All fights, but he recorded because he had so much passion. If you type on YouTube right now, Rodrigo Minotauro versus Roleta, there was a finals of the
super heavyweight division, back in 2000 or 1999,
it was a crazy fight. And you see like how is the fight. I'll put the fight on the
link, you guys can watch. If you see the fight, if you watch the way,
like he used to do things, like the camera, like a little shaky, and then he put the letters running, like subtitles-
– Titles on the bottom. – Yeah the titles like oh, watch right now Roleta, next
fight, blah, blah, blah. And I used to watch fights like that.
Oh, I wanna watch again, you rewind. – Oh, it was an actual
VHS tape that you had to? – Always, and then you need to call him, and then say, "Hey Paqueta, please, I wanna watch 1997?" – [Will] No way. – He's like "Okay so, you
want the whole fight?" "Yes." "Okay, give me a week, I'll set up for you, I'll send to you." And then like you pay him
like via bank deposit.
And then you send him a
fax of your bank deposit, he sees that, and then he sends you the
tape after like 10 days. And then come a package,
with all the tapes, maybe seven tapes of all the fights. – We are so spoiled now. We are so spoiled. You just go onto FloGrappling
and look up anything you want. – Just go YouTube!
– YouTube. – Andre Galvao, or whatever. Jujitsu, or basic jujitsu, or De La Riva. – It must've been crazy to, if there was some new guy on the scene, let's say you, for example,
who was coming onto the scene, and you were doing some new technique. You had no way to really
study or prepare for that. If you were the opponent, right? Nowadays you can find everything online. Oh, this guy is doing this, this position, I gotta go break it down, study it. So when you got to the competition, it was the wild west man. You could just, some
guy had a really good- – You just hear stories. – You just hear about.
– You just hear about it. Or you see the guy fighting
some other small tournament.
And then you have friends that saw the guy that knows the big names of the brack, and they're like, "Oh, be careful, this guy do a lot of triangles." Or "He does a triangle this." And then you're just aware. But a lot of times it
was pretty much like, you and the guy, especially
for a blue belt, purple belt, you wouldn't find anything. – Would you go back to
those times if you could? Or do you think we're in a better place, much better place now.
– We are in a much better place of course. We evolved so much and it's
way better right now for sure, for everyone in every single aspect. Look how many gi brands,
even no gi brands. And jujitsu is, I say
jujitsu is the tale of MMA, let's say right, all the way around. But I feel that because if
the MMA grows, jujitsu grows. And the MMA, right now
during the pandemic, is the only sport you can watch on TV.
And then you see guys grappling and they always talk
about Brazilian jujitsu, they always talk about jujitsu. They always throw like, "Oh, this guy's a black
belt in Brazilian jujitsu. People know, people like, even if you never see
jujitsu you know the word, you know, what is… And we are in such a great position. And I think it's just the
beginning to be honest because the fighters still
need to work to make money. For example, right now there are fighters that they don't need to
open a school if they want. They just live from
teaching instructionals. They make good money with instructionals if they have a good
reputation, and good technique, good image. They still need to work.
It's still like you gotta work. It's not only from your fights. There's no tournament that
pay you a million dollars. There's no tournament that pay. You know what I mean? Like soccer players,
they don't teach soccer, they just play soccer. Surfers, they don't teach surfer. They don't teach surfing, they just surf. – But the funny thing is, is that jujitsu fighters
train just as hard, maybe even harder than these guys.
– Yeah, I feel like I deserve to make a good amount of money because the effort that
I put for the sport, I know my value, I know that I worked probably even more than a professional athlete, even more. You can say oh no, but
those guys are profe… But they have everything, they have the doctors, they
have the physical therapists, they have everything.
Think about an NBA player for example. He just show up in the venue, there's a guy that's
prepared a uniform for them and everything, it's so easy. – And he's not going home after that, and then teaching at the
local basketball school down the road. – Or even making his own
food, something like that. – But do you think jujitsu
will get to that point? – Of course.
– You think so? – Because man, if I go
back and look to the 1990s where we have all these VHS tapes, or the one guy only recording the fight, man, if Paqueta didn't exist, probably this guy that he used to record, he died a few years ago.
But man, if this guy didn't exist, we wouldn't have a history in jujitsu. – Yeah, we owe that guy a lot. – We wouldn't have history
in jujitsu man, seriously. And he made the history. And then even back in
the day we felt like, when you see someone
famous in jujitsu, famous, it was because Paqueta recorded that guy and you watched that
guy in our TV at home. And then you see that guy live, and you're just like, "Man, I wanna take a
picture with that guy." And then you go there and
"Let's take a picture." So I think in jujitsu has
more of that than judo, than any other grappling
fight because of this guy.
– [Will] That's awesome. – And man, I feel like we can
go to the next level for sure. – Well, I think the problem is, I don't know if jujitsu will
ever be a spectator sport. Right now, I think the growth of jujitsu has to do with the the amount- – I think the no gi will. – [Will] With the amount of
people that are doing jujitsu. – I think the no gi man. – [Will] You think it could? – The no gi. Probably the gi needs to, it helps a lot, but the no gi, it grew way
more than the gi, I think.
Because I feel like it's
more dynamic, the fights. It's easier for people to understand. – Definitely. There's more scrambles, there's more wrestling.
– There's more submission too. – And more submission.
– Why? 'Cause there's heel hooks. There's no heel hooks or
kneebars for lower belts in the gi. So that makes the fight
a little bit more like… Imagine you're a blue
belt, you're going fight, you don't think too much
from the waist below.
There's only they straight in ankle lock. You can not do kneebar, you can not reap the knee, you can not do anything. So that kind of slow down a little bit, the submissions in the sport, of course it's for the safety of kids and people that are coming up. But the no gi, it's pretty
much the MMA of grappling, you can do whatever you want. You can like, even some slams, some tournaments they allow slams. So I think it's growing a lot. – You know that organization One FC.
– [Andre] Yeah. – You know how they keep the individual martial arts separated, they have MMA fights, but they also have Muay Thai
fights or kickboxing, right? They should have submission
grappling fights. I think that would do a lot to help. – Actually they contact me and ask, they would like to make my
fight with Gordon there. – Oh really?
– They asked me like- – That's a submission grappling fight. – They just ask and then we
just talk and they never answer. They talk with my manager.
– Think about that.
– Former manager, MMA. – I think that would maybe
propel the sport to the next… 'Cause that would just expose
it to so many more people. Martial arts fans. One FC is pretty cool. They really love the martial arts. – Yeah, they do, they do. – [Will] And you can see- – In Asia they understand more grappling, and jujitsu and all that. Not that here people don't understand, but I feel like, here people
love the striking more. It's more exciting to watch striking.
But jujitsu is exciting. And I think society
will start to understand more, and more, and more, and more what is jujitsu. It's crazy how many kids
are training jujitsu. – That's the thing. I think if more people
continue to train, right? And start training. I think that's the main growth
of the sport of jujitsu. But then we can add in some
of that spectator too as well. I think you're right, maybe
we could get to a level where you are paid like a professional athlete to do jujitsu. – Yeah, right now for example, there are people that
watch college wrestling, but they never done college. They never done wrestling actually. They have never done wrestling. They're just a fan. They're just a fan, right? In jujitsu we already
have people like that. And sometimes I'm at the airport, sometimes I'm walking around
on grocery stores and, Andre Galvao, you know? And then I'm like, oh,
this guy trains somewhere, and then we take a
picture and all of that. And I'm like, "Where are your training?" He's like, "No, I don't
train, I just follow you." – Really?
– Yeah.
A couple of times it happened, yeah. – Wow, that says something. – Maybe two out of 10 people that asked me for a picture they- – Don't train.
– They don't train. – So that is saying something. That means that jujitsu has transcended the world of just people who train. – Or they have people that
train jujitsu they know, they go to watch and they just like… They appreciate, and then
they start following you. – Well, I think Joe Rogan, man. I think Joe Rogan is
the guy who put jujitsu. – I'll bring Joe Rogan here. (laughing) – [Will] You are the new Joe Rogan. – Wow, man Joe Rogan is the next level. I'm a white belt man. – At podcasting?
– Like a podcast white belt. – You should be on his show, man. That'd be interesting.
– Yeah, that'd be crazy, that'd be amazing.
– But that's the reason why-
– Shout out Joe Rogan. – Shout out Joe Rogan.
– He follow me, he follow me on Instagram. – That's the first step. – He follow many fighters on Instagram, he loves jujitsu, he loves martial arts. – He's the biggest advocate for jujitsu. – Yeah. Yeah, he is, he is for sure. He's putting jujitsu out there 'cause he talks about jujitsu with his guest, that never
trained jujitsu before. So for sure he's a such influencer.
– It's amazing how all the
people who come on his show, everyone says the same thing. Jujitsu, it doesn't matter
what part of life you're from, he'll have someone Sam Harris on there, who's this philosophical, really smart deep thinker type guy. And Sam Harris talks about
how awesome jujitsu is, the benefits of jujitsu,
how it changes life. So I think if we spread that more, the benefits of jujitsu,
it's not just a cool sport, but it can really change your life. – Yeah man. Professor, Master Helio Gracie knew it.
He knew it. He knew he had a such
amazing tool in his hands. He knew it. – Yeah.
– Yeah. And the Gracie family too, because he's the pioneer of
the family being well known. Of course the start is,
I think his brother, Carlos Gracie start first, and then here came all
the history of the family. But he knew the power of jujitsu. It makes you think differently. It makes you think differently. A lot of people they… Okay, you can surf, you can skydiving, you can do any other sport. But when you do jujitsu, it's different because you're not by yourself, that's the first thing. you need an individual, you need someone to practice your, to practice jujitsu, to
practice your techniques. You need someone. And the environment that you build, the relationship that you
build on the mat is priceless. – I call it the hidden benefit of jujitsu. That's the one thing where you don't, you don't think like coming into, when you sign up for a jujitsu class, you don't say, oh, I'm gonna
make this awesome network.
You think I'm gonna learn
a bad-ass martial art. The hidden benefit of jujitsu is that you create these relationships with, everyone on the mat they become your brothers
they're your family. – Because it's so close, it gets so close. And of course the Brazilian culture inside jujitsu, within
jujitsu helps a lot. – [Will] I would agree, yeah. – Because Brazil is all
about hugging and kissing.
If you see the old school
guys, they kiss each other. – [Will] Yeah, very warm and friendly. – Yeah, I saw Allan Goes,
Professor Allan Goes. He's like, if you don't know Allan Goes, just put Allan Goes MMA
or Allan Goes PRIDE. He's like back in the day,
he was a monster in jujitsu. He was that guy that helped
to build the path for us. He paved the path for all of us, especially for my generation. He's before my generation Carlson Gracie school. And I saw him, he came
he was like, (smooching) He kissed me, like they kiss you. And it's different. – It's very friendly. It's like anytime when
I come back to Atos, and I see Lucas Barbosa, I see you I say, "Hey brother, how are you, man?" You guys come give me a big hug, and that's the Brazilian culture.
And that's like, I would
say, yeah, you're right. So that's another-
– It's a mix. – It's a mix, it's that warm friendliness also adds to the brotherhood
that you create from jujitsu. – I think you can not have closed mind. And then I put this in a different, now we can talk about this, like when the media started talking about the American jujitsu
or the Brazilian jujitsu, I think it's a mix because
when you started the podcast, you said, "Man, there
wasn't much organization." 'Cause to be honest in Brazil, the culture is not very organized. We just go with the flow. We have this type of lifestyle. We wake up, we just go with the flow man. The Americans, they have the plans, what they gonna do, it works
really well, that's great.
But you need to have a balance. You need to find that balance. And jujitsu if you're American, helps you to find that balance. And if you're for Brazilian, it helps you to find that balance to be more organized too with your things. So I think the culture
in the United States, it's really good in terms of organization. But in Brazil it's the other way around. But the culture in Brazil,
in terms of relationship, it's great too.
And then you mix both the
culture of that relationship, that commodity, where you shake the
hand, you fist and bump, like you (bumping) and you hug, you kiss, you get closer, you just joke around, you give nicknames, all these things, you break the ice. Otherwise you're just
doing just one thing. – So what should we call it? Should we call it mixed jujitsu arts, MJJ? (both laughing) – No, I think jujitsu is
jujitsu because in Brazil, when we train, we just
say, oh, I do jujitsu. And actually the Americans gave
the name Brazilian jujitsu. Because in America you
give a name for everything. And you guys are great or we are great, – [Will] I think Brazilian
jujitsu sounds cool. – Yeah, we are great
on giving names, right? when in the techniques, for example, how would you call this? But imagine people are here, and I talked about this on
the podcast with my wife, but it was in Portuguese. And I talked about the history. The Gracie family came here
in 1980s or late 1970s. And they brought jujitsu to United States, they start challenging everyone.
And they start participating
of sambo tournaments, and judo tournaments, and they started beating up people, submitting them, putting them unconscious or challenging people from
different martial arts. And they'd say, okay,
do whatever you want. And they'd just hug the
guy and mount on the guy, and they just slap their face. Just play around with the guy, and they're just, "Wow, what is that?" And then people were starting to recognize the jujitsu with the Brazilian crew. Oh, there's a bunch of Brazilians that is doing this art called jujitsu, it's Brazilian jujitsu. That's where it came…
And also the trademark, because it used to be Gracie Jiu Jitsu, and then the family, they still have like, one side of the family, they use the name Gracie jujitsu, and the other side of the family wants to spread jujitsu
to all over the world, they're like, "Okay, we're
gonna call it Brazilian jujitsu the way they're calling here." They're calling us
Brazilians that do jujitsu, 'cause the jujitsu from Japan is different than jujitsu that we do. And the jujitsu that went to Brazil, the jujitsu went to Brazil and then it mixed everything, and then we kinda like, jujitsu is an open mind sport where you can put any
grappling arts within. You can do judo in jujitsu, you can do sambo in jujitsu, you can do- – [Will] Cat wresting. – You can do anything in jujitsu. The things that works in cat wrestling, you can apply in jujitsu. So jujitsu is such a great sport because it's very clear that
the fight is just one piece. There's no like, only
stand up, or only guard, or only ground, or you have
a certain amount of time to be on top of the guy,
there's nothing like that.
It's a one piece. I was watching judo awards
with my wife and my daughter, and then I saw like, every time the guy goes to the floor they turned their back
and they just like… And they got put bolt hooks in, the guy just there and then, okay matte, stop, and then stand up. And I was thinking, I
looked to my wife and said, man, for us having someone
in our back is a nightmare. But for them, it's the
greatest thing that can happen. But for us, it's a nightmare. – [Will] It's like they just have to wait. That's the end of the fight for them, for us the fight just started when you get down there.
– But imagine if you're on the streets. You try a take down, you miss, and then you're just like, boom, put your belly down and stay there.
Your own bottom, it's not work as a self-defense. So jujitsu is definitely in
my opinion, the greatest art. – Oh, it's the best.
– It's the best. People can say, with all
respect to all the arts, they have all their qualities. I did judo, I love wrestling too. But man- – You know what I've been watching? Cobra Kai. – Yeah, Cobra Kai, I watched a little bit, they talk about jujitsu
a little bit there. – It's fun to watch Cobra Kai, but you're like, "Man this
is just such bullshit." (both laughing) This would never work. – Man, but thanks Royce Gracie. Thanks to the Gracie
family, Rorion Gracie, the guys who created UFC to
show the power of jujitsu.
That was the goal. And man, they did it, they did it. – They were pioneers. So I was having this
conversation with somebody, a good buddy the other day, about pioneers people who
really changed your jujitsu. And I was thinking, obviously the Gracies, but I was thinking, how do you
think Atos changed jujitsu? – Man, Atos, it made jujitsu, because since we started
having the team in 2008, we came up with this
idea of making something that would be different. And I remember in the first
year, competing was in 2009. We started Atos in 2008, end of 2008, and we started competing 2009. We came towards 2009. It was a bunch of guys
wearing an ugly patch. The first logo of Atos was terrible. And we make so much noise, and people are like, who's those guys? Where they came from? Atos, what is that? And we always had the open
mind to develop the techniques, and make the technique better. And we found that, Atos started developing
a lot of new things for the modern jujitsu, Even some people criticize
the 50/50, for example.
It was a strategy for the new black belts to overcome an older black belt. It was a strategy to work with the rules, it's kind of like, oh, boring, whatever, or the double pull thing and all that. And people like, oh, this
is messing up the sport, and all that, the berimbolo and stuff, of course shout out to gi and Hafa Mendes because Hafa actually
has a special jujitsu and he started developing
a lot of techniques there. But his professor Ramon Lemos, the co-founder of Atos, man, Ramon has such a vision of the fight and he's so creative.
And we started studying
training and all that, and then we all open, and I have always this
mindset of training a lot to become well-rounded fighter. Like, you gotta improve in
every single aspect of fight. And then we mix it up, everything, the mindset of Ramon Lemos with the technique and all that and all my techniques too, but also the mindset of
being a well-rounded fighter. I always like to play everything. Judo, jujitsu, take downs, bottom, top, since I started training. And then we start
applying that in our team, and then our athletes, and then we see like, you watch Gilbert Burns,
Guilherme, Raphael, and then you watch Caporal, which is a tough fighter as well. – Frazatto.
– Frazatto, Calasans all these guys, Guto
Campos, man it was amazing. And definitely the team
helped to change the game, change the game. We innovate a lot. And even the rules were changing a lot. They changed a lot the
rules in the last decade because we came up always with something. Remember when we created
a type of technique where you twerk to kneel for your opponent without reaping their knee.
And they banned that. They started banning the… They started kind of like trimming, and making sure that jujitsu was safe because we start developing stuff. And it's all about the strategy. It doesn't matter, if there's
a rule, there is a strategy. If there's a rule, there's a strategy. And of course the goal of the fight is always go for the submission, that's the goal. That's the goal that I always, I always, when I train I
like to train like that.
My mindset is to go for the submission. We have amazing, grapplers
amazing fighters, and Atos is so open mind
that we became great. We became a great team where
we have a lots of athletes. We have lots of athletes gi and no gi. And usually our athletes that are good gi, they're also goo no gi. – That why you were saying earlier, you guys are good at everything. Take downs, guard, top, go, no gi. When I hear the term modern jujitsu, that I think of Atos. I think that's their contribution, was really modernizing modern techniques, but it has to also go
with this open-mindedness. You guys are, you don't, you're not married to, all
right this is our style.
If something new is coming,
you're gonna take it in. You're gonna adopt it. – And the way I teach
too, I teach like that. I feel that, like one time I was discussing with a guy, and the guy like, oh your students, they all have different game. And kind of like, all your
students' came from all over. That's why they have different game. They don't have one solid game. I say no, because I'm open-minded man. I sharp your game according
to your body type. I can not like, look, you're tall, right? You're like 6'3, and I'm like 5'10, my jujitsu is different than yours. – I don't berimbolo. – Yeah, exactly, but you
have a great triangle. For me to set up a triangle
is a little bit harder. So I need to work on the techniques that would be good for you. Otherwise, I'll think just about me. Imagine if I go there and just teach the things that I do only.
Only the things that
works for my body type. – And how would you guys continue to win if everybody that you're training with has the same exact game? You're never gonna- – Yeah, you're never gonna have variety. – [Will] Variation, yeah. – You gotta have everything. Because also, it's not only the body type, but also the conditioning of the athlete. some guys are more, they're
more explosive than others. Some guys they don't have explosion. Some guys have more resistance. Some guys are strong. Some guys they're not strong
but they're really flexible. So you gotta adapt a game
and a training for everyone. You have the small guy, the
big guy, and it's working. The way that I'm working here, it's working in helping all
these guys to become great. And they have their own style. I help people to find their own style. I help them, because I believe
you're born with jujitsu.
I believe everyone is
born with jujitsu within. You just don't sharp that, you just… You have that within, 'cause, if somebody threaten you and try to jump on you
and try to fight you, you're gonna do a jujitsu. You're gonna grapple them. Even though you think
about punching, kicking, the fighter gets so close that they're gonna
start scramble with you. So you gotta find a way to survive. You gotta try to hug them by the neck, you gotta try to…. if you don't know jujitsu, you're gonna try to do a headlock or a guillotine if you watch UFC. And UFC is helping
people to understand that to know what is the fight? What is a fight. When they're in bottom, I
gotta keep between my legs, things like that.
– And what works. – Yeah, so I think like, I always believe that people, they're born with jujitsu within, you just gotta sharp that, you just gotta help them to find that.
– It's innate, it's
definitely something like, you watch little kids, they grapple, or you watch dogs or you watch animals, it's within us, wrestling and grappling. – Yeah, so we all different, so we all have different jujitsu. Even though we have the, we can drill and repeat
the same technique, but maybe you're gonna
do a little bit different than the way that I do, I'm not gonna say you're wrong. If that work for you, I cannot say, no, do my way only. Don't do that way. – See, that's where you
stop growing, right? When you have that close-mindedness. That's why you guys, I think
you've had such great success. – Yeah, the goal is to evolve man. Imagine if I always keep my classes one class you mentioned before. You can never separate
the classes, imagine. And I think- – Talk about the talk about
the evolution of Atos, I think that was another
really good quality was that, we had, once Atos really
started taking off, and you guys are winning more and more, it attracted all these
different types of games, all these different people
to wanna train here.
And then that elevated even more. Let's talk about the hidden benefit, is like this network. So like Dom Bell, great instructor, right? He has a very specific style of jujitsu. Michael Liera Jr, you're learning from all these
different guys, JT Torres. And they're all bringing
their own little thing. And so that was, I think something, a really cool aspect of
the evolution of Atos. – 'Cause man, I… The type of leader that I am, I always, I show by example, I always
do things by example. People will see that they'll kind of like, you gain respect. Not that you force people to respect you.
So it's just like, I always do my best to show as an example, of course, I'm human, I make mistakes. It's part of the process to
learn from your mistakes. And always, I do my best
to recognize my mistakes, and I understand that
communication is everything in everything we do. And I always talk with my athletes, and I always talk with my students too. Even the regular classes,
when I finish the class, I give a message to people. I like to do that. And I believe that will, that
goes beyond the training. And I encourage people to teach me. 'Cause think with me. I'm a teacher, but also I'm a student. I put myself in both situations. And I never close my mind
to learn from my students. I always learn from them. I always do that. And I love when they ask questions, and they give me suggestions
for things 'cause I learn. And if I had a closed mind, I would never allow
people to be themselves.
Even for example, there are some places they build a culture where let's say if there's a leader that has a lot of tattoos, all the students has a lot of tattoos. You know what I mean? Or if there's a leader
that has one type of hair, all the people have that type of hair. So for me, it doesn't work like that. For me, you gotta be yourself. And I allow my people, my
students to be themselves. – Your hair looks great by the way. – Yeah, thank you. I'm just trying to change the style. I'm not telling that they
need to have this style here. But some people, they shave their head, some people they have their beard. And I have a type of personality where I believe that we are all different, and you don't need to be exactly the same. – [Will] So before the show- – But the standards, the
character, you gotta have. The character, helping people, that's the most valuable for me.
It's not the outside. or the way people teach. So I always talk, I have
meetings with people that teach at my academy, and I tell them the way
that I want them to teach but I don't cut off the
methodology that they use that is working. So if I see their classes,
I see the way they teach. And I just like, I give my suggestion. Hey, I think you should add this. Or you forgot to mention this. But you're doing amazing, keep doing that. And then they start understanding. Like for example, Nisar teach
the kids program for a while, and when we talk, we always talk about how we handled the system, how we doing. And he tell me the things that he's doing, sometimes I participate
off the classes as well. I teach, that way he
can see the way I teach. And then man, he's being very successful. Probably one of the best
kids program that we have. I started Ricky Briceno
teaching the little kids, and now I see like, man,
he's doing an amazing job.
But when he start he was like, "Oh professor, I don't
think I can handle it." I said "Man, do like
this, just study this, show this type of
techniques to those kids. And I believe you're gonna do well." Man, right now you watch his class, he's a different person. People like, man, I didn't know
Ricky Briceno was like that. He's such a leader right now. So I think it's- – But that comes from the
top, that comes from you. – Yeah, exactly, but
it's also encouraging. So I think it's important to think about the overall
results, overall results. – So I wanted to ask
you, so before the show, I asked you, how did your game evolve? – He's interviewing me, it's nice. – No, but so that's, like you asked me, how did Atos evolve. In 2011, you won the
weight and absolute, right? And I was saying, it's
kind of a bummer that, I mean, it's phenomenal that
you had all these super fights, but we never got to see you
back in the tournament again. How do you think, and you said, you think you're a much better fighter now than you were in 2011.
– Of course, way more.
– How, how so? – Man, even though I get older, but I feel like my techniques are better, the knowledge is better, the knowledge of training is better too, the mindset, I started
knowing more and more and more about myself. And it's not easy to find a super fight. A lot of people, ah super fight is easy. Man, a lot of people. And I feel like my opponents, all of them, I felt that they had some type
of pressure on their back. And I never felt that. But I think throughout the
years, that helped me lot. The experience that I gained. So this is ADCC, but over
all IBJJF, and all that. To be honest, thankfully
I have such an energy and I'm pretty open to learn new things. I evolve with the sport. As an athlete, as a coach, as a leader.
You gotta evolve, you gotta keep growing. And you gotta cut off the
bad things, the bad habits. And that's the hardest
part for a lot of people 'cause they have bad habits, they don't recognize those bad habits, and they keep- – Do you mean bad habits
in jujitsu bad habits? – Everything, general. Bad habits as a leader,
bad habits as an athlete, bad habits as a coach, bad habits as a… And how you find those bad
habits, gain knowledge. How you gain knowledge,
you study, you study, you read, you read, you study and you learn more about yourself. You can start learning
more about yourself. – That's interesting that you said that. That you understood yourself better. And I think that's an interesting concept that people don't think. If they wanna get better
at jujitsu they'll, oh, I need to train harder,
get better technique.
How about learning yourself better? How you react in situations- – 'Cause at the end of the day it's like, recognize your mistakes and fix that. The fight is the same thing. What is the area in the
fight that I'm super weak, that I'm very like, I hate
when people get there. Oh I don't when people
play spider guard on me. I remember I had that. I used to not like it. – [Will] I hated the lasso. – Exactly what I did. Okay, put the lasso here, let's go. Let's study lasso, escapes, whatever. Ask questions and see others doing, and then you start learning. So not only that, but in the aspect of, the personal aspect as well,
as a father, as a husband.
I always think that it's, jujitsu is just a little piece, it's a little piece of what I do in life. It's just a little piece
because I have so much that has a lot of value in my life too, that I can put it first. – But you take those principles
that you learn in jujitsu and then you apply into the
other parts of your life.
– Of course. Jujitsu is a real fight,
it doesn't lie to you. Jujitsu does not lie to you. Jujitsu doesn't tell you, give her back and you'll be fine, like the other sports, like
the other grappling sports. Even wrestling, I love wrestling, but you fight wrestling,
the guy can not pin me. So you just turn your back, don't let the pin touch the floor. And jujitsu if your back is on the floor, you should be comfortable. So in life it's the same way. I feel that you gotta
always face the problem, you gotta always keep aiming
and looking for submission, to finalize your task, your things.
The art teaches a lot,
because it's very, very real. Jujitsu is very real. If you make one mistake that
mistake can cause you a loss, you know what I mean? And a loss of opportunity. But you always can tap to
recognize your mistake, and reset, and start again. But when it comes to world
titles, and all that, sometimes one little mistake can cost you a world title, for example.
But in training, you make a mistake, you can always go back and fix right away. So I think the evolution
of Andre Galvao is that. When I moved to United
States, my English is, my English was really bad. I had the Brazilian mindset, I didn't have the American culture. I didn't come with American
culture in my mind. Now I learned a lot
about American culture. I'm sit and I dominate
the language right now, and I can speak about anything. The books that I read is only in English. I read only in English, I
don't read Portuguese, no. And actually, I don't like
to read in Portuguese. – Why?
– It feels like, I don't know. It feels I'm not learning, because just for the fact
that I'm reading English, I'm learning. – It's like an effort you're
putting in (indistinct).
– Yeah, I'm learning,
so I love learning, man. And I think you can never stop learning. – How did you learn English, just curious. 'Cause I wanna learn Portuguese. But Duolingo is like, it doesn't work. – Talking and sometimes Facebook
remind me from old posts. And I look the things that
I wrote like 10 years ago, I was just, I'm so ashamed. I'm like, oh no, I see all the mistakes, the grammars mistake that (indistinct). – [Will] Yeah, what (indistinct).
– I was just like, oh no, man. It's okay, but nobody's perfect. But I was at least expressing myself, and a lot of people they, just for the fact that they
only speak the language, they are very shy, they don't speak. – I think that holds a lot of people back who aren't willing to put
the time in to learn English. They could have amazing
careers in jujitsu, but they just aren't learning English.
And unfortunately, I feel
like you need to do that for you need to do interviews, you need to connect with the fans, you need to make instructional
videos and content. – You gotta speak English man. Yeah, you gotta speak English because it's the universal
language let's say. And you gotta learn, you gotta learn. – I feel like if I learned Portuguese, it would help me in my job too. – And also when you learn Portuguese, it helps you to understand
a little bit more, because sometimes the
problem can be the culture, like melting. And some people they
have such a closed mind, that they're kind of like, ah, I don't like the
Brazilian culture they say. Or the Brazilian, I don't
like the American culture. So I think you just need
to speak the language to understand, have a communication. But everybody has feelings,
everybody has emotions. We're emotion beings. We always needs to express. And people lack on the way
they express themselves. And sometimes it's hard, but yeah, man. So I think that's how we evolve in life. I always to grow when
you say, oh, you know.
I remember when you win a prize, you just put into the gym. I made $50,000 ADCC, I broke all the gym. And I remember my accountant like, man this money is yours. Use the money to your personal life. Don't use your money to your business. I'm like, but the business is me too. The business is mine. The business is ours. If I just invest in me, I'm not gonna think about all these people that are coming from far
away to just train with me. Let me do it. And then I did, and then he's just like, ah, you don't listen.
– Really? If I listened to-
– Yeah but look where it got you today. – Yeah, if you listen all the time what people tell you to do, sometimes you have the
guts like the other… In Chinese culture, you
say it's your second brain, the guts. 'Cause you have the feeling
here, the butterflies. You have the guts, when you have the confidence to win, or you have the guts when you believe something is gonna work.
It's your second brain that's work, is not this brain here, 'cause if you let this work too much, you're not gonna do things in your life. You just be too reasonable. Oh, maybe it's a risk. Or maybe, ah, maybe I
can lose if I try this. Man, you gotta go, the guts needs to be beyond. Sometimes you put your guts first especially when you wanna take a risk and you wanna make things work, make things work. Let's say, if you wanna
give life to something. And how we can give life to something, you can start a business right now and the business has their own life. And then you're just give
life to that business by your guts, by believing
that thing that you're doing, it's gonna grow, it's gonna work. And later on, you're gonna
receive things back for benefit because you created that. And this goes to my beliefs,
that creator created us. And he created us to give him, to give him, to communicate with him. So by creating us and making
us something that has life his appreciation of seeing us, feeds him.
So you're appreciation of seeing your business growing feeds you. Even if you don't make
so much money from that, you feel like, oh, I did it. – I get it, yeah. It's like a cycle, you put into it, it gives back to you. And you keep putting into it, and it gives back to you. – I love talking about this. But we gotta stop right now, we gotta finish this podcast. It was amazing, we can talk more later. I have lots of meetings today. – [Will] Of course, man. – I'm a busy man.
– thank you for having me man.
– Thank you so much, man, it was amazing. Man, it's great to talk with people. I know you for a while. I see you growing, and man you're doing amazing
and I wish you the best. Okay I wish you the best.
– You as well, man. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, this was awesome. – Well, that's podcast over..
